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With the division of the former Jugoslavia the Vatican separated out the Byzantines on the same lines as the new international borders. This may yet happen in the Horn of Africa. Things are reported to be very unwell in Eritrea and there may come a time when the Catholic Church is required to separate the Eparchies and set them up on their own, just as the Orthodox Church has done.

LC,

On this point, we shall have to agree to disagree. I've spent 4 decades plus of my life understanding Rite as the source from which Tradition flows and on which the Church structures its worship and praxis. And, I've spent half of that time explaining the process to others in that context.

As I said earlier, I've only seen your interpretation placed on that passage once before and I'm disinclined to accept it, for the reasons that I enunciated above.

Many years,

Neil

Yes, unfortunately Eritrea has developed into an extremely repressive dictatorship. This obviously affects all Eritreans, including Catholics. For example, in 2007 the government expelled 14 Catholic missionaries (source [catholicnewsagency.com]).

And the legitimate Patriarch of the Eritrean Orthorox Tewahedo Church, Abune Antonios, remains in government detention.


Source:
Amnesty International Report 2009 - Eritrea [unhcr.org]

Paul,

I agree and, as I said previously, I think the possibility is real.

Of note, the Eritrean Catholics have a larger presence in the diaspora than their Ethiopian co-religionists, but are not presently well-served pastorally for reasons that are not completely clear. There are about 2 dozen communities in the US and a half-dozen in Canada. The majority are either unserved or served only on a sporadic basis.

Many years,

Neil

Neil,

You just said that a "Church is a sui iuris body of faithful which worships according to a particular Rite."

So what's wrong with saying that the Ethiopian Catholic Church uses the Ethiopic Rite? Or do you think it is more accurate to talk about the Ethiopic tradition of the Alexandrine Rite?

I am very interested in trying to understand the distinctions you are making here.

The continued detention of Abuna Antonios has been a source of great distress to the Ethiopian Tewahado Orthodox. Prayers for his safe release and return to God's active service.

Many years,

Neil

Absolutely. The Ethiopian Tradition and the Coptic Tradition evolved from the Alexandrian Rite - the latter first. In its earliest iterations, there was significant commonality between the praxis of the two and one might, indeed, have not even distinguished between them by Tradition. That, over the centuries has changed and an Ethiopian (or Ge'ez) Tradition has evolved.

(btw, I am unconvinced that Ethiopic is a real word - it has been much bandied about in recent years, but I don't think it existed a decade ago)

Many years,

Neil

OK, I think that makes sense.

So we can then talk of the Alexandrine/Alexandrian Rite, the Antiochene/Antiochian Rite, the Armenian Rite, the Byzantine or Constantinopolitan Rite, and the Chaldean or East Syriac Rite as the five main Eastern Rites, and then distinguish between their various traditions and usages?

I wonder what the plans are for the vicariates and prefectures in the future? These missionary territories currently belong to the Latin Church (there is no such thing as an apostolic vicariate or apostolic prefecture in the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches) and are under the jurisdiction of the Congregation for the Evangelization of Peoples. But until the creation of proper dioceses or eparchies, these missionary territories do not yet constitute proper Churches.

The interesting thing is that the missionaries come from both the Latin Church and the Ethiopian Catholic Church. Therefore, it seems to me that in future, as the missions become more established, they need not necessarily become dioceses of the Latin Church. If the majority of clergy and people in fact belong to the Ethiopian Catholic Church, then the missions should become eparchies of the Ethiopian Catholic Church in due course. Only in those places such as the Vicariate Apostolic of Awasa where there seems to be a strong Latin presence, would it make sense to create a diocese of the Latin Church.

The taxonomy, I believe, should run, from the top down:

Tradition of a Family of Churches-->Liturgical Rite-->Proper Usage of a Particular Church-->Customary Usage within a Particular Church

In Stuart's taxonomy, if I understand him correctly, we would talk about e.g. the Alexandrine tradition consisting of a Coptic rite and a Ge'ez rite. This agrees with what I suggested in earlier posts.

From what I understand Neil to be saying, he would rank "rite" above "tradition," e.g. the Alexandrian rite, subdivided into the Coptic and Ge'ez traditions.

Ultimately it depends on how you define the terms. What is important, though, is to avoid the old fallacy where people used to talk about e.g. the Coptic rite instead of the Coptic Church.

Neil's terminology, then, may be better since it helps us avoid confusing the terms "rite" and "Church".

Coming back to the topic:

The statistics for the Catholic Church in Eritrea indicate an unusually large concentration of female religious in Asmara. Are these Eastern or Latin rite?

I didn't know that the Ethiopian Catholic Church is quite Latinized.

Pictures from their 2008 Eucharistic Congress:

http://www.ecs.org.et/Doc/Eucharistic%20Congress/Eucharistic%20Images/Cathedral%201.jpg (the Cathedral)

http://www.ecs.org.et/Doc/Eucharistic%20Congress/Eucharistic%20Images/don%20bosco%2023.jpg

The second picture shows Latin-like hosts on what looks like a glass vessel (it is certainly transparent) being lifted up by the head of the Ethiopian Catholic Church

I should have said MALE AND FEMALE religious.

I really find all these cricitisms of an ancient Church unacceptable.

To my mind , unless you are in the situation of being present in their country and with them for long periods , you have no real idea as to how these so called Latinisations came about.