www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Vespers obligatory for the faithful?

Off topic: I'm interested in this wording, the use of the verb "assisting" which I'm not familiar with in this context. Is the use of the word "assisting" for attendance/participation in Liturgy by the faithful used frequently? It also was in OP's quote from Wikipedia. I've not noticed it used before.

It's a real poverty of experience and of teaching isn't it?...


You'd know more about the mindset and the activities of the hierarchs than I do and I'm sure you are speaking to a real issue.

In two entirely different contexts I've heard Orthodox priests say "The priest sets the tone for the parish". As a RC I thought "Amen!" Still, the work of good cathechesis and of lived example is up to all of us. One of my favorite lines comes from Auntie Mame: "Life's a banquet and most poor suckers are starving to death!" The Church is a banquet and we are too often failing to live the banquet and share it.

As a lay person, I've read bits and pieces of many writings of Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI on liturgy which were I thought wonderful. I've also read many bits and pieces of writing by Orthodox priests and laity on liturgy that were great teachings for me. The most far reaching teaching at the moment in the RC church I'd say is coming from Catholic TV/Radio, sadly with sparce ECC material, tho some. For the East, there are some, I think, wonderful materials on websites [easternchristianmedia.com] and YouTube [youtube.com], byzcath, and Ancient Faith Radio [ancientfaith.com]has really good materials, albeit Orthodox . All of which may frequently be preaching to the choir, not really to those who hold the "Cracker Jack" theology of liturgy since those folks often aren't watching/listening to it.

Brings me back again to the Orthodox priests' quote. To reach the people it needs to be coming from our priests, at the least. That requires there be priests, and deacons (sorry to leave them out, I haven't yet been blessed to have a RC parish with one, tho my ECC parish deacon has been an important teacher for me) and they be well formed and well fed. Well formed and well fed priests and deacons does certainly get back to what comes from our hierarchs.

"To reach the people it needs to be coming from our priests, at the least. That requires there be priests, and deacons (sorry to leave them out, I haven't yet been blessed to have a RC parish with one, tho my ECC parish deacon has been an important teacher for me) and they be well formed and well fed. "

In his essay, "Liturgy in the Life of the Church", Father Robert Taft points out the dichotomy that exists within some of the Eastern Catholic Churches: On the one hand, the Holy See has directed the full restoration of the Eastern Christian patrimony and the suppression of all latinizations; on the other hand, this renewal has been resisted both actively and passively by many of the hierarchs of the Churches to which it applies.

This results in the unfortunate situation of younger priests who wish to follow the guidance of the Holy See to become, as the phrase has it, "Orthodox Christians in communion with Rome" implementing the reforms as instructed and then being criticized and in some cases disciplined for doing so.

In the Ruthenian Church, so many of the clergy have been browbeaten into submission by the hierarchy that they retreat into utter passivity, doing nothing unless it is explicitly approved by the bishop. As you can imagine, this has done wonders for clerical morale (one is put in mind of the poster that reads, "The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves!"). A number of priests seem to have responded through passive aggression, doing what they are told in a sullen and carping manner that transmits their demoralization to the laity, who respond as one might expect.

"Assisting" has been used commonly in the context of participation by the laity in liturgical services, the Divine Liturgy, Mass, etc. for Roman and Eastern Catholics since at least the 18th century in English translations.

Stuart-


I'll look for Fr Taft's article, thanks for the referral.


I appreciate this information, unfortunate and troubling as it is. It puts your earlier comment in a much clearer light. All the more reason for us to truly pray for our priests and deacons.

Gracias. -Marylouise


Thanks! I'm glad to learn this-- something new every day!

I will admit to not being very knowledgable on this subject. Though we are Ruthenian, we have bounced back and forth between the the east and west fairly often enough to be confused at times -due to the lack of an Eastern Rite Church nearby.

Our understanding is that you must go to either the vespers - traditionally on Sat, or the Divine Liturgy on Sun. Preferrably both if you are able.

In our current situation, the closest Eastern Rite parish is over 5-6 hrs away, sp we have only been able to go 2-3 times in the last 19 mos. In reading this thread, I am getting the impression that it is ok- even advisable for us to sing the vespers ourselves? I have on occasion, but have always felt guilty because "who says the priest part?" (my husband I am assuming).

Obviously we still go to mass in our Latin Rite Parish- but I am concerned about my younger children not knowing or understanding the Liturgy.

Nancy, you can always use the "Reader" form of services without a priest. In fact about every service except the Divine Liturgy can be adapted as a Reader's Service. Fr. John Whiteford has some helpful suggestions.
http://pages.prodigy.net/frjohnwhiteford/horologion.htm
http://orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/services_nopriest.aspx
http://www.saintjonah.org/services/howtodo.htm

Metropolitan Cantor's Institute has the adaptations for reader's vespers on their website, at:

http://metropolitancantorinstitute.org/liturgy/ReaderServices.html

Sure say Vespers with the family, etc... in fact a local Orthodox Church is having "lay Vespers" this Saturday, most likely because the priest is going away I would guess. I