www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Pictures of ordination of Bishop Nikola of Krizevci

Wonderful photos, Fr. Dn. Lance! Thanks.

Many years to Bishop Nikola!

An historic event!

Deacon Lance,

Thank you for the link to the photos.

Regretably, the accompanying commentary at NLM is a classic example of the ignorance so prevalent among some (who, in this instance, would likely consider themselves particularly knowledgeable as to matters ecclesiastic) as regards our Churches.

Many years,

Neil

Utterly stupid.

Colin Nunis,

Are you calling the installation of Bishop Nikola "utterly stupid"?

Are you calling the photos "utterly stupid"?

Please explain your hostility to the Eastern Church.

John

The comments were utterly stupid. One only has to read them. They put lie to the aphorism "There are no dumb questions". Worse, it proves there are lots of dumb answers. Not the first time NLM has seen fit to hold forth on the Eastern Churches, a subject about which they know little but write much.

Oh--Two Lungs? Apologize to Colin. He's one of us, you know.

Why the harsh comments about the NLM ? They did ask for assistance at their site and it was posted here...

Really sad about this sour commentary...

Let us just say that some of us have had extensive experience with the New Liturgical Movement, and have found them to be, at best, barely tolerant of Eastern Christianity, and at worst condescending and outright hostile. A sample thread dealing with the matter of married clergy is available as a Word file for whoever would like it. Just drop me a personal message with an e-mail address.

Them meaning Shawn & Staff ? Or those/them that respond with knuckle head comments ?

I don't see married clergy being part of liturgical matters and a topic there...

It came up in the context of the ordination of another Greek Catholic bishop, in which someone asked whether a married man who changed particular Church from Latin to Greek could be ordained. Quick as a wink, Father Peter Stravinskas, who though not on the staff is a regular contributer, jumps in to say that married men cannot be ordained outside the canonical territory of the Eastern Catholic patriarchates, which of course, is fallacious on several levels.

He then went on to claim that only the Latin Church maintains the ancient apostolic Tradition of mandatory clerical celibacy, that the Eastern Christian practice is a "bastardization" of the Tradition, and that Eastern Catholics should not be allowed to ordain married men in North America because it would mean the death of clerical celibacy in this country. He was wrong in his basic premises, he was wrong on the history, he was wrong on the canonical legislation--none of which deterred him. What did come out was a monumental ego, a total lack of charity and understanding for the Eastern Churches, and a profound belief that Latin theology, doctrine and practices are normative for all Catholics, regardless of Church.

Basically, they like our pretty Mass, and have no conception of the Tradition that our liturgy informs and nourishes--and if they did, they probably would not like it very much.

I am quite sure that Mr. Tribe is only interested with the liturgical practices of the Eastern Churches...

One can email him with their concerns, if it was not a priority to him, he would not have asked for input and assistance...

Yes, if one cares so deeply, e-mailing would probably be the best. That is, if you want Latins' opinions (or how you perceive them) to change.

Stuart, I definitely agree with you that what Fr. Stravinskas said is totally off the mark, uncharitable, and frankly, very stupid. But just because a contributor on an open thread says something stupid does not mean the post, or the entire site, is anti-Eastern.

Perhaps the most helpful thing you could do is contact them and offer to write a piece for them. As Jakub said, they are looking for contributors who are well-educated in the Eastern Churches and Rites.

Alexis

Let's everyone settle down a bit and converse with a bit more charity toward one another; I'm not in the mood to lock another thread, but I could be pushed to do so, though I'd find it most disheartening to have to, given that there are no contributors to this thread who don't know enough to rein themselves in.

My post was not directed at the NLM site itself nor Shawn Tribe. Frankly, I won't claim to be familiar enough with either to take up that battle at present. What did bother me were the comments posted at NLM (in follow-up to the photos) by those who are apparently devotees of the site - and, yes, I could have elected to reply to those rather than merely commenting here on them - but, didn't because there are only so many hours in the day and I pick my battlegrounds with that in mind.

That said, I agree with Stuart (not an everyday occurrence) as to the piece by Father Peter Stravinskas, which I remember reading (albeit I could not have told you where). It was an abomination.

Returning you now to your discussion, but with a reminder to reread the caveat with which I opened this post.

Many years,

Neil

Yes, I was the one who posted that request for assistance, but no one stepped forward to contribute.

By the way, I am getting tired of the incessant negativity of some commentators in ByzCath towards conservative or traditionalist Roman Catholics.

As someone who regularly comments on NLM -- and posts on Eastern Rite topics on Rorate Caeli -- I'd like to say that many Roman Catholics who are involved in the new liturgical movement (the movement itself, not the blog) have a deep and genuine respect for the Eastern Churches, and the ignorance is often unintentional. If you really want to educate Roman Catholics about the Eastern Churches, why don't you comment and contribute?

It doesn't help that some Eastern Catholics reciprocate the ignorance -- which I see in the hostile, ignorant and damning comments about Catholic traditionalists that I often see in this Forum.