www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology My Experience with the Divine Liturgy in Buffalo

As some of you may know, I recently moved to Buffalo from the Pittsburgh area for employment. After being unemployed for almost 8 months, I was hired as a Coordinator of JR/SR High Youth Ministry and Religious Education in a Latin Parish. There are no longer any Ruthenian parishes in the area, but there are 4 Ukrainian parishes that I can attend. So far I have attended 2 parishes. Now many people claim the RDL is the Vatican II byproduct of a Divine Liturgy, I would have to disagree, these 2 liturgies are. The first parish in which I attended the Divine Liturgy was St John the Baptist in Kenmore (just north of the city) and the second was St. Nicholas in the city. Both parishes offer Divine Liturgies in Ukrainian and English and both are served by priests from Ukraine. Naturally, I attended the English Liturgy because, well, my Ukrainian is how you say NON-EXISTENT!

Anyways, back to the core of the matter neither parish used the same translation, ok no real problem here, the first used the translation for the Stamford Eparchy and the second used the text promulgated in 1985 by (?).

These are the major problems I had with the Liturgy:
-No incense
-No Chanting, except in the parts that you would see typically chanted in a Latin Church, but only at the first parish.
-Kneeling, ok so this is still practiced a lot of places.
-At the 2nd parish, one other lady stood when everybody else kneeled, so I stood with her.

Over the next few weeks I am going to make an attempt to attend the Divine Liturgy at the other 2 parishes. If my experience is the same I am considering contacting the Chancery to see if there is a reason for this. If those parishes are much the same, I will probably begin to attend the Maronite parish in the area when I am not obliged to be at the parish of my employment.

I may try to set up a time to meet with the priests of the 2 parishes I have attended thus far to ask why the Liturgy is that way in the parish. My guess is because it's the English Liturgy and the people there have an ethnic Ukrainian background, but want something "more Catholic and less Orthodox."

So far I am sad and disappointed. Hopefully things will get better.

Your encounter with these parishes is not unique. I've been to St. Josaphat Cathedral in Parma numerous times, and in almost twenty years nothing has changed. Out of four weekend liturgies, only one has the full meal deal. (Incense, altar boys, all chanted, etc.} Another parish was completely recited, beginning to end.

It's Latinization and doesn't appear to be going away anytime soon.

I am sorry to hear that. In some places we Eastern Catholics have a long way to go to de-Latininize ourselves.

I personally like the RDL, I hope that doesn't make me an outsider-

Well, you aren't all that far from Brampton - try Saint Elias.

Fr. Serge

Bless, Father! I have considered it, but I do not currently have a passport. When I switch my drivers license to this state I can apply for an enhanced license, so that will come much sooner than a passport.

I had the chance to meet Fr. Roman and his brother Fr. Peter when they were in Erie, PA last year. I quite enjoyed my time speaking with them.

The Blessing of the Lord!

By all means get a New York license. Meanwhile, arm yourself with a birth certificate.

Fr. Serge

Isn't there a UGCC parish in Buffalo whose Pastor is Hispanic? I have heard that they try their best to be fully Byzantine (with their limited resources and as their abilities allow). They even have a deacon (a latin, who is still learning) for Liturgy.

I can't recall the name of the parish, but that would be Fr. Robert Moreno, who is an awesome priest. Is the deacon you are thinking of named Joseph? Back on the topic, Fr. Moreno's Liturgies are, if they are like the Vespers with Divine Liturgy he celebrated for a retreat at Christ the King Seminary in East Aurora, 100% sung and very beautiful. Father has made portable iconostas, candle stands, kliros and transformed a little Latin chapel into a nice temporary UGCC nave and altar for us.
Fr. Robert was, as of July 2008, serving a parish in Olean on Saturday evenings but that's not his pastorate.

He serves at a parish in Lancaster, not far from where I work, it is on my list of parishes to attend.

I have not made that claim though I do see the same misdirection guiding the RDL that predominated post Vatican II liturgical reform in the West. Though not of that group, however, I find that the comparison in the quote is not the exoneration of the RDL that it attempts to be.

That two liturgies are found to be worse than the RDL does not thereby make the RDL any better. The issue is this: Are the "major problems" listed also mandated by the official liturgicon etc.? -- that is, mandated no incense, no chanting, required kneeling.

The problem described is that of freelancing resulting in a liturgical celebration that, I suspect, departs from the scope and sense of the liturgicon.

In the case of the RDL, the problem and the issue is the official liturgicon itself, and its promulgation, in that it mandates the very issues that are questioned: an abridged liturgy (the full liturgy in English not permitted), invented rubrics, and translations that are lacking aesthetically, linguistically, theologically and, some would argue, doctrinally.

Thank you for refreshing my memory!

I only used that to make a point, not exonerate anything. This is not the thread to discuss the RDL, it was merely an observation.

Bless, Father,

A birth certificate will no longer get you into and out of Canada, alas. It now requires either a passport or one of the forms of 'enhanced' identification - which are, for the most part, driver licenses from those states which offer the 'enhanced' version.

Many years,

Neil

I don't think that recitation of a liturgy with no chant is really a "latinization." The Latin Church has a wonderful history of chant, and historically the only Masses allowed not to be fully chanted were Low Masses. I'd consider it more a product of laziness and modernity than "latinization."

Anyway, Erie Byz, if you're looking for centuries-old, chanted liturgy with incense, I suggest attending St. Anthony of Padua (Roman) Catholic Church, www.stanthonyofpadua-buffalo.org. [stanthonyofpadua-buffalo.org.]

They have a Traditional High Mass every Sunday morning at 9:00 AM (I called to make sure it was High and not Low)...that's one of the things I love about the new traditional renewal in the Latin Church: in my experience, High Masses are more common even than in pre-Novus Ordo times.

Also, Apparently at Our Lady Help of Christians in Cheektowaga (about 12 miles outside of Buffalo), there's a Traditional Mass every Sunday at like 1:30 or something (too lazy to check again).

Just sayin'...

Alexis

Thanks for the info, Alexis. I'm not a TLM type of person, but occasionally I think it would be nice to attend (now if it were in English and I was a member of the Latin Church I would choose it over the N.O.).