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Originally Posted by Deacon Borislav
The Truth has always been the Truth. It has always been out there. It has always existed without change. It was up to the councils however to try and distinguish this Truth from falsehood. It was up to the Holy Fathers who met at the councils to be able to explain in a fallible human language that which could never be fully explained...

The Fathers of the 7 Ecumenical Councils were not the Truth. Neither did they create the Truth. Rather they met to articulate the Truth to those who had ears to hear and eyes to see.
I agree completely. But I do not agree that this task of discerning and articulating the Truth suddenly came to an end in A.D. 787, and I trust that's not what you mean to say either. Indeed, the need to discern and articulate the Truth seems to be just as great today as it ever was! But to me that also means that there is room for discussion and dialogue between Orthodox and Catholics regarding how best to discern and articulate the Truth today.

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Originally Posted by Latin Catholic
I agree completely. But I do not agree that this task of discerning and articulating the Truth suddenly came to an end in A.D. 787...

The Ecumencal Councils were not convened for the purpose of illuminating and clarifying the teaching of the Church EXCEPT when it came under attack from heresies which threatened to disrupt the life of the Church in a major way. All were called to fight heresy.

Since the last Ecumenical Council (speaking as a big-O) in 787 there has been no great heresy attacking the Church. There have been localised heresies (such as the Nameworshipping heresy among some Russian monks on Athos and in the Caucasus) but these were able to be dealt with on a local level and did not need the summoning of an Ecumenical Council.


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There are several universal issues which seem to be worthy of an ecumenical council, and are threatening Christendom at present.

1) mandated acceptance of homosexual marriage
2) mandated equality of women being applied to clerical positions
3) employment laws being used to force bishops to retain defrocked/deposed clerics under salary and in housing.

These are recurrent themes these days. I am aware of a Catholic priest having been defrocked and then having sued to retain his "job" as pastor, within the US. The bishop won, but the interim injunction required the bishop to continue to house him at the parish and pay him.

Canada has attempted to pass laws requiring churches to perform "gay marriages," including churches that teach homosexuality is a sin.

An orthodox seminarian sued in Alaska over having been dismissed from seminary for being homosexual; he dropped the suit when his prior history of pedophilia came out.

A women's group filed suit under the ERA in the us about women not being ordained Catholic Priests. The US Distict Court tossed the suit... but expect it to happen again.

I expect fully that, within the century, churches that do not treat homosexuality as "normal and acceptable" and do not allow women to rise to all levels of power will be forced underground in the US, UK and Canada. (At least that will also force Islam underground, for the very same reasons.)

Likewise, suits were brought about priests preaching about homosexuality being a sin during the period before the ballot measure for Alaska's Marriage Definition Act... the courts, wisely, resolved them in motions based upon the fact that the bible condemns homosexuality. (US Federal law prohibits directing the faithful to vote for or against any particular candidate or ballot measure. Section 501.)

But there is a constant slippery slope. At present, the church hangs on, and loses little ground.

It is likely also to happen in the EU.

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Originally Posted by aramis
There are several universal issues which seem to be worthy of an ecumenical council, and are threatening Christendom at present.

1) mandated acceptance of homosexual marriage
2) mandated equality of women being applied to clerical positions
3) employment laws being used to force bishops to retain defrocked/deposed clerics under salary and in housing.

It is likely also to happen in the EU.

Soon the West will be run by Muslims and we shall be better off. There will be no more abortion clinics, no more hotels and supermarkets selling alcohol, no more gay pride marches. Islam will impose the morality which Christians have not been able to achieve in Western society.


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You have a problem with alcohol, Father? I thought that was a Baptist and Mormon thing.

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do Australians drink ? [news.bbc.co.uk]

I thought this rather entertaining smile

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Or see Monty Python's Australian Philosophy Society sketch, and of course, the Philsopher's Drinking Song.

By the way, that 24-can per day limit--are those Fosters-sized cans?

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Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
Soon the West will be run by Muslims and we shall be better off. There will be no more abortion clinics, no more hotels and supermarkets selling alcohol, no more gay pride marches. Islam will impose the morality which Christians have not been able to achieve in Western society.

Looking forward to an Islamic Russia, Father?

Peace and God bless!

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Originally Posted by Ghosty
Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
Soon the West will be run by Muslims and we shall be better off. There will be no more abortion clinics, no more hotels and supermarkets selling alcohol, no more gay pride marches. Islam will impose the morality which Christians have not been able to achieve in Western society.

Looking forward to an Islamic Russia, Father?

At the moment there is the hope that the influence of the Church in Russia will produce a Christian society. Whether that will occur before the Russians descend into dhimmitude...?

An article with a positive assessment of the role and impact of the contemporary Church within Russian society...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sponsore...sian-Orthodox-Churchs-emerging-role.html

A map of Eurabia where Russia has now become Greater Chechnya
http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/6128/eurabia.jpg


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Demography is destiny, Father. The Russian total fertility rate is about 1.4. Russian male life expectancy is just 59 years. The only people in Russia having babies are Muslims. The total population of Russia will drop below 125 million by the end of the decade; the proportion of Slavs may drop below 50%. Good luck with that.

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Originally Posted by StuartK
Demography is destiny, Father. The Russian total fertility rate is about 1.4.
Up from 1.25 five years ago.

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Quote
Up from 1.25 five years ago.

Assuming you can believe official figures from the Russian government. Five years ago, I might, today I would take everything with a large chunk of rock salt.

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Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
Soon the West will be run by Muslims and we shall be better off. There will be no more abortion clinics, no more hotels and supermarkets selling alcohol, no more gay pride marches. Islam will impose the morality which Christians have not been able to achieve in Western society.

But father, I thought drinking was the joy of the Rus'?

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Originally Posted by GMmcnabb
Originally Posted by Hieromonk Ambrose
Soon the West will be run by Muslims and we shall be better off. There will be no more abortion clinics, no more hotels and supermarkets selling alcohol, no more gay pride marches. Islam will impose the morality which Christians have not been able to achieve in Western society.

But father, I thought drinking was the joy of the Rus'?

God seems to approve of the joy of strong drink since He commanded the Jews, those who could not manage to deliver their tithe to the Temple, to turn it into money and to eat and to drink...

Deuteronomy 14:22-29,

"Thou shall truly tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field brings forth year by year."

And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the Lord thy God shall choose to set His name there, when the Lord thy God hath blessed thee:

Then shall thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thy hand, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose:

And thou shall bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever they soul desires: and thou shalt eat there before the Lord thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thine own household."

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So why do you consider selling alcohol in supermarkets to be in the same company as abortion and gay pride parades? Maybe I misunderstand what you mean, and you are just saying that this is something that would result in an Islamic America? Not that it is a bad thing (alcohol). The states I find myself in already make it illegal to sell spirits in supermarkets anyways.

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