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Interestingly, from all reports, Bishop John Michael and the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church's daughter in the US - the Eparchy of St George in Canton of the Romanians - have been working hard to achieve what Rome has asked of us all.

I have served at the altar for Bishop John Michael on several occasions, and he was quite punctilious in his observation of the rubrics. I can see how the poverty of his eparchy might inhibit some of his efforts, however. As recently as a few years ago,for instance, he did not own a complete set of episcopal vestments, and the Society of St. John Chrysostom bought him a mandyas as a gift for his years as Greek Catholic sponsor of the Society.

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Originally Posted by Fr.Coryolan
Not even the orthodox are identical.

Except in their Orthodoxy.

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For the Romanian Greek-Catholic Church there is an evolution during the centuries.In the parishes the Rosary, the "Via crucis", the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary, the devotion to St.Anthony of Padue/St.Therese de Lisieux, the presence of the statues....all these realities are not introduced now but exist for centuries.

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Bless Father,

Most of these latinizations have existed for centuries. They are foreign to traditional Byzantine liturgical practice and piety. The Vatican has asked Eastern Catholics to return to authentic Eastern practices. So we should, as Byzantine Catholics be Byzantine Catholics.
Is there anything wrong with praying the Rosary or having a private devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Mary? I would think not, but I would stress it should be a private devotion. I pray the rosary, at home as well as the Divine Mercy chaplet, from time to time.

Latin practices are historically foreign to Byzantine theology and liturgy. We should return to authentic eastern practices. We wouldn't want to see all of the Latin Churches scrap all their authentic traditions and use ours would we? I would certainly hope not.

P.S I think that it is perfectly okay to have devotions to western Catholic Saints in Byzantine Churches. My only thing would be instead of statues of Saint Anthony or St. Therese why not have an Icon of these saints?

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The Holy See give general recommandations concerninc these issues through the Instruction for the apply of the liturgical matters after CCEO.The Holy See didn't really enters in details and respects the decisions of the Synods of Bishops of these Churches.

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I most strenuously doubt that the Romanian Greek-Catholics have had a devotion to Saint Therese of Lisieux for hundreds of years. Saint Therese herself is relatively recent; I think that she was canonized in the late nineteen twenties.

Devotion to the "Immaculate Heart of Mary" is also recent.

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But in 1948 these all were present in the life of our communities.During the period of persecution they were the soul of our spirituality.
The Romanians are a latin ethnic people and the greek-catholics really feel they have a spirituality quite influenced by the westwen tradition, without forgetting the byzantine one.

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I always find it strange when I see latinizations in a Byzantine Church building or liturgy, just as I feel bizarre when I read about (I've never seen it) "Western Orthodox" Mass with explicit epiclesis inserted and Byzantine bread flattened to resemble Hosts used in the West.

But maybe the cleansing of "foreign elements" is just a fashion from the 2nd millenium when it was done for the sake of deepening the division? The West has been singing Kyrie and praying minor doxology all the time, although their origin is obviously Greek.

I wonder what were the Eastern and Western practices looking in the 1st millenium, and what they thought about borrowings at that time. Were they fighting them?

By the way, the Rosary is not a public (that is, liturgical) prayer of the Church even if it's prayed in the church in public.

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But in 1948 these all were present in the life of our communities.

Bishop Florian of Cluj said something rather different to me some years back. And an Orthodox priest just last year told me that Orthodox and Greek Catholic "are the same thing".

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In the parishes the Rosary, the "Via crucis", the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus and Immaculate Heart of Mary, the devotion to St.Anthony of Padue/St.Therese de Lisieux, the presence of the statues....all these realities are not introduced now but exist for centuries.

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But in 1948 these all were present in the life of our communities.

From 1948 to 2009 is 61 years, which can scarcely be called "centuries".

Fr. Serge

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I found a quote from His His Beatitude Lubomyr Husar on a blog that I thought was relevant to this topic.

"It is true that we have been latinized. And this is the great merit of Metropolitan Sheptytsky at the beginning of the 20th century: that he tried to reverse this process. Personally, I consider myself a follower of Metropolitan Sheptytsky, together with many others who would like to get rid of all that has illegally entered into our spiritual, theological, liturgical, canonical heritage. We were told: If you want to be a real Catholic, you have to be Latin. And they pushed us into it. And it is only with Metropolitan Sheptytsky that we could say: Dear brothers from Rome, one can be Catholic without being Latin. And we were attacked on two fronts, Catholic-Latin and Orthodox-Byzantine. And we said: No, dear brothers, one can be Ukrainian, one can be Byzantine, one can be at the same time Catholic. These different elements do not contradict one another. So this is why neither the Latin Church nor the Orthodox Church is very happy with us. "- His Beatitude Lubomyr Husar, Patriarch of Kviv-Halych

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Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
We wouldn't want to see all of the Latin Churches scrap all their authentic traditions and use ours would we? I would certainly hope not.
Nelson,

Your post is very reasonable and I find myself generally agreeing.

However, with regard to the above excerpt the Latin Church in the United States HAS adopted some 'byzantinization." (just created a new word laugh ) Specifically, I see more Latins bow than genuflect. Also, icons are very dominant in publications and to a lesser extent as Church art.

Isn't it reasonable that BOTH Churches of the East and West have evolved in North America. Is that terrible? Or is it a natural progression? Looking back over the centuries the Eastern Church has evolved to the surrounding culture..In Constantinople, Egypt, Russia, Ethiopia, Podkarpatska Rus etc. If it didn't, wouldn't it be a dead Church, void of the Holy Spirit?

Moderation in all things.....some things are "verboten"; some are not. We all need to keep in mind that forums have not yet replaced Synods. God forbid, should that happen. So, getting back the the subject of this thread.....yes, there are differences between Byzantine (Catholic AND Orthodox) Churches. This is a very Eastern principle which should be honored and respected.

IMHO
Fr Deacon Paul

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I'm reminded of these words written by, Fr. Stephen C. Gulovich [cin.org], in Eastern Churches Quarterly back in 1946. It illustrates some of the attitudes that led to the development of the some of these changes for Byzantine Catholics:


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Enthusiasts and armchair champions of the Eastern rites often condemn efforts aimed at the revision of the Eastern liturgies because they are not familiar with the difficulties encountered by the clergy, who must make the best of a ritual which does not fit in its entirety into the circumstances of contemporary life. They do not seem to understand that our generation no longer has the patience to sit (much less stand) through services which last for hours, such as the rather monotonous Good Friday Matins of the Byzantine rite, or the long monastic vigil service on Christmas Eve. In many instances, the Byzantine church does not offer an opportunity to satisfy devotional aspiration as understood by our generation. Thus it has no appropriate Lenten devotion which would appeal to the average American, who would like to have something similar to the Way of the Cross. Too often priests must use their own imaginations in arranging for some occasional devotion, as when, following the end of hostilities last year, the clergy had to compile a special thanksgiving service, since such a service is not to be found in the Byzantine rite. Nor have Byzantine Catholics the opportunity to venerate, publicly, the more modern saints because they are not provided with appropriate and ecclesiastically approved devotions. Little wonder then that so many of these Catholics find their way to Latin churches, where they find a variety of devotional exercises adapted to modern ways of life. One should strive towards idealism, but it is folly to lose sight of the reality of one's daily need! In a similar manner these idealists do not hesitate to condemn the American Byzantine clergy for sometimes abandoning the eikonostasis (a screen, covered with pictures, separating the sanctuary from the nave). They do not realize that the artistic and structural atrocities which often pass as eikonostases are not only unliturgical, but frequently either makes it impossible for the majority of faithful present to follow the action in the sanctuary or distracts their attention from the action altogether. These are some of the reasons why the American faithful often insist that the eikonostasis be omitted from the more modern structures.

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I'm reminded of these words written by, Fr. Stephen C. Gulovich, in Eastern Churches Quarterly back in 1946.

I followed the link back to the CIN document. There are some extrememly interesting articles relating to the establishment of the Greek Catholic Church (and indeed, the eventual success of most of the Orthodox Churches) in America. The fortitude, Faith, and success of the Rusin peasant is to be admired!

I heard that Rusyn priests were not well educated before the Union of Uhzorod, but I was unaware that they had only serf status up unil the Union. Can anyone blame them for the Union...rising above serf status and the ability to be properly educated? The articles really shame those who are critical of the meager compromises made to latinization; for they paved the way to the birth of the composite Eastern Church in America. Indeed, Christ is among us!

I am honored to be a descendent of these God-loving Rusyns.

Fr Deacon Paul

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I should explain, Fr Deaon Paul, that I thought the quotation to be the antithesis of what Pope John Paul wrote in Orientale Lumen about the Eastern Church and its liturgical life. My apologies for not being clear in my citation of the quote.

I agree that the document at CIN (Clash of the Titans) is quite a read. One wonders what would have happened if the immigrants from Eastern Europe had been met with full respect for their Church and traditions.

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