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(Altho' some of us think of { } as bird feet )


Sharon

OrthodoxEast:

Previously you said:

Pardon my curiosity but what makes a HYPO-ORTHO darn so hyper-critical of the EP? :rolleyes:

Amado

Dear OrthodoxEast,

Well, I like playing with strings and worry beads and the like.

They relax me and I can't be without them.

That's why I like the Christian East - prayer ropes et al. you know!

Alex

Sadly, even moderate Otho's have every reason to be critical of the EP. It's not just the Esphigmenites with their 'Orthodoxia i thanatos' that are worried by Phanariote actions, but also humble, quiet and moderate Orthodox believers.

It's not a case of being hyper-critical, but of being Orthodox. At the same time those worried by Constantinople can look towards other Christians with love, but a love shaped by the Orthodox experience. This can help us forward to a true ecumenism and not simply one of fudging issues and pretending that we're all the same. We owe oneanother this honesty. It is the first step forward.

Lord lead us forward with honesty and integrity.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, mok and sinner.

Bless, Father Mark.

Thank you for your kind explanation, especially in view of Amado's unnecessary negativity from outside the Orthodox experience.

Kissing your right hand,
OrthodoxEast

OrthodoxEast:

Calling the Patriarch of Constantinople, His All Holiness Bartholomeios I, ECUMANIACAL is positive?

That is not only negative on your part but is, to me, very un-Orthodox and un-Christian.


Amado

Again, "brother" Amado, your remarks come from outside the Orthodox experience. While I do not relish the term "Ecumaniacal" in reference to His All-Holiness, Bartholomew I, I did not invent the epithet and I am not the first Orthodox Christian to use it in reference to the Patriarch. But it does express, as Father Mark confirmed, how even many moderate Orthodox Christians feel about what some perceive to be His All-Holiness's excessive ecumenist activities. Have a good day, "brother" Amado.

OrthodoxEast

Let us please be careful with the language we use, whoever invented it. I struggle to understand the Patriarch of New Rome. I struggle to understand how he is Orthodox - and the simple answer is to pray, pray and pray even more.

The patriarch has brought a great deal of pain to the Orthodox Church, especially to traditionsalists, some of whom try to struggle within his Patriarchate. Perhaps non-Orthodox people cannot understand the sheer pain that the likes of the Patriarch, but we should try to walk the via positiva, celebrating and realising the fullness of patristic Orthodoxy, teaching by faithfulness and example.

At times we must speak out as our holy father, St Mark of Ephesus did, whilst at other times we should be silent as the sheep before its shearer.

Whatever, is appropriate to our circumstance, we should seek to defend the faith in charity and in love.

The flames do not need fanning in places such as this forum. But TRUTH, must be spoken and preserved. Sometimes this truth will hurt, but if the truth of Orthodoxy hurts those outside Orthodoxy itself, or those within for that matter, this is unavoidable.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

"Execessive ecumenist activities".
This term that was used, makes no sense what so ever, at least for a Christian, be he Catholic or Orthodox. Could you please explain this term?
Lauro

I don't think anything can really be discussed until we have defined ecumenism. That is something for another thread, as important as it is. We really are straying more and more and should relocate this discussion.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Thank God Christ and His Church are much bigger, infinitely more just and beyond our pitiful attempts to judge the soul or Orthodoxy of any man.

Dear "brother" Amado,

Let me make this perfectly clear, from a wannabe ecumenical theolog position:

The Ecumenical Patriarch has sometimes tended to define inter-church positions from a foundation of uncritical acceptance of historic theological disagreements between the ancient Sees of New and Old Rome as essentially indifferent and value-neutral in substance and essence, thereby underscoring the fear that ecumenical talks might sidestep any overarching efforts determined to ontologically relate such disagreements to their wider theological and hermeneutic significance from within an holistic effort aimed at circumventing the confusion caused when such indifferentism becomes the characterizing feature of ecclesial contacts and discussions between the higher echelons of church leadership.

I don't know why I didn't post this earlier . . .

Alex

Alex - is that like "I could of had a V8..."

Dear Diak,

I think you are the only one who truly understands me here!

Alex

Dear "brother" Alex of our "sister" Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church in the Dominion of Canada:

Thanks for your speedy clarification of the matter!

Can you repeat it, again, for the second time?


Amado