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Originally Posted by "APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTION ANGLICANORUM COETIBUS"
§ 2. The Ordinary, in full observance of the discipline of celibate clergy in the Latin Church, as a rule (pro regula) will admit only celibate men to the order of presbyter. He may also petition the Roman Pontiff, as a derogation from can. 277, §1, for the admission of married men to the order of presbyter on a case by case basis, according to objective criteria approved by the Holy See.

The objective criteria will be Rome reviewing these cases to assure that married Latin men are not exploiting this as an end around the Latin Church's celibacy requirement. Officially this is the same canonical norm the Metropolia of Pittsburgh is saddled with and for the same reason.


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Which is why, if you apply for a change of ritual church, be ready to see an addendum stating that you can't be made a priest or deacon. I've seen it done.

Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
The objective criteria will be Rome reviewing these cases to assure that married Latin men are not exploiting this as an end around the Latin Church's celibacy requirement. Officially this is the same canonical norm the Metropolia of Pittsburgh is saddled with and for the same reason.

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Originally Posted by Amadeus
Originally Posted by aramis
I should clarify one thing: unlike other personal prelatures, the membership requirements for the ordinariate are more than simply desiring to be there. I'm not looking up the exact reference right now, but marriage to an Anglican Ordinariate Member Catholic allows one in to the Ordinariate's enrollment. Persons born in also are members.

The recently established Personal Ordinariate for converting Anglicans is the only one so far in the Catholic Church.

Likewise, the Personal Prelature for the Opus Dei is the only one so far in the Catholic Church.

There are no "other Personal Ordinariates" nor are there any "other Personal Prelatures." And the two structures are not the same, i.e., a Prelature is different from an Ordinariate, as we have seen.

Amado


There's only one papal personal prelature, Opus dei, yes. However, there are other ordinariates, including every papal right clerical order, Many militaries have ordinariates.


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Next step is to establish a "Sui Juris" Church for them.
Stephanos I

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Next step is to establish a "Sui Juris" Church for them.

Ain't never gonna happen. The Anglicans are not distinct from the Roman Church as a whole. Just as we Greek Catholics will some day return to the jurisdiction of the Churches whence we came, so the Anglicans will return whence they came--which is to say, from the Church of Rome. They may get permission to use their own unique rite, as was the case in England prior to the Henrician schism (I would dearly love to see restoration of the Sarum rite), but they haven't got a prayer of being recognized as a particular Church, absent a total devolution of the Latin Church into national or regional Churches.

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"Never" is a word which it is usually best to avoid.

Fr. Serge

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Originally Posted by Stephanos I
Next step is to establish a "Sui Juris" Church for them.
Stephanos I

Shlomo Stephanos,

What I would love to see is for the Mozarabic Rite and the Bragan Rite come into general use here in the West and have them become Sui Juris Churches.

Fush BaShlomo,
Yuhannon

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La Iglesia de San Isidoro y San Leandro [youtube.com] in New York City celebrates the Mozarabic Rite. I do not know which jurisdiction they belong too. Back in 1997 I went to Toledo Spain for my junior year trip. I was told that the expression, "Holy Toledo," is because within the old city walls of Toledo there are some couple hundred chapels, a cathedral, two synagogues, and a mosque. That's about a square mile.

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Originally Posted by Didymus
La Iglesia de San Isidoro y San Leandro [youtube.com] in New York City celebrates the Mozarabic Rite. I do not know which jurisdiction they belong too.

Some additional photos of La Iglesia de San Isidoro y San Leandro are here [bridgeandtunnelclub.com]

The building was built as St Elizabeth of Hungary (Latin) Church in 1895. Subsequently, it became the Russian-Greek Orthodox Chapel of the Holy Trinity, a temple that served the Russian and Greek embassies in NYC. Afterwards, it was the Russian Orthodox Church of St. Nicholas (now on East 97th St). Presently, it belongs to an entity styled as the 'Western Orthodox Benedictine Friars of the Hispanic Mozarabic Rite'.

Apparently, they had - at some point in time - a connection with the
Orthodox Mission of St Eulalia of Barcelona [misionortodoxadesantaeulalia.blogspot.com]
, which claims to be under the spiritual omophor of the Holy Synod of Milan. Whether the church in the Lower East End is itself part of the Milan Synod is open to debate, as it's not listed at the Synod's site [milansynodusa.org] - though Archbishop John of NY, NJ, and the Eastern US has served there on occasion according to at least one video that I've seen.

Bottom line, whichever jurisdiction they claim to be, it is not a canonical one.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Interesting building, although the interior is both eclectic and overdone.

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There is no need for any particular Church to be limited to just a single rite. Britain, Gaul, Spain, Northern Italy, Rome and Southern Italy all belonged to the Latin Church, yet within those boundaries a multiplicity of rites were celebrated--including the Byzantine rite.

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For that matter, the Byzantine Liturgy is still used to some degree in each of those countries; the Ambrosian Liturgy is still used in most of the Archdiocese of Milan, and the Mozarabic Liturgy has been in continuous, although restricted, use in Toledo and Salamanca. It has been expanding of late (there is normally a Mozarabic Mass in St. Patrick's Cathedral, New York, on Columbus Day, and other celebrations are scheduled here and there for special occasions. In Spain, parishes and families are reviving their Mozarabic connections). The Sarum Liturgy never quite died out in Britain, and nowadays there are some regular celebrations - I've attended it twice in Oxford and it was packed out on both occasions. I shall be interested to see whether any of the future Anglican-Catholic communities will make regular use of the Sarum Liturgy.

Fr. Serge

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It probably bugs the hell out of liturgists that many (most?) people approach liturgy with an aesthetic as well as a spiritual perspective. Perhaps that's why liturgists insist on producing ugly liturgies.

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I hope you are not accusing me of lacking an aesthetic appreciation for beauty in Liturgy - as Pope Benedict has reminded us, beauty is highly relevant. Shlock, however, is not.

Liturgy without liturgists is a contradiction in terms - how could there be liturgy without someone to liturgize?

Liturgiologists: I could give several examples of what bad liturgiology produces; you would not like it. But the alternative to good liturgiology is bad liturgiology.

Liturgy requires effort from everyone involved. It's not unusual to find people who resent the need for effort. It's not unusual to find people who resent the notion that liturgiologists (who have spent years in study) know something that the rest of us need to know (what an un-American thought!).

But face it. We all have to eat, and we know that by instinct. But one cannot become a Cordon Bleu chef without studying and without working at it.

Fr. Serge

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Back to the Anglicans who wish to join the Catholics: as I continue to follow this I notice with, I confess, a certain befuddlement, that the news media are confiding, as though this were a new discovery, that Rome does not recognize Anglican ordinations and, therefore, that Anglican clergy who wish to go on functioning as clergy will have to be ordained again by a Catholic bishop when/if they enter the Catholic Church.

First of all, this is scarcely news - the definitive Catholic statement on the subject was issued well over a century ago. Rome, while striving to behave with courtesy ("the grace of God is in courtesy") has given no indication of any intention of withdrawing that statement. l

Second, this is not unique to Rome. Anglican clergy who wish to become Orthodox and continue functioning as clergy must be ordained again by an Orthodox bishop - and that should come as no surprise either.

I take it for granted that the leadership of the Traditional Anglican Communion and groups in some sense allied with them are well aware of the relevant facts.

Fr. Serge

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