www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News New Toronto Bishop

Dear Andrij,

If such a union would mean greater use of the ripidia et al., I'm all for it!

I'm not happy with this, but, as OrthodoxEast says, well, you know what he said . . .

Alex

Why all the negativity? First a complaint that the bishop is retiring and then a complaint that it took so long to announce his successor!

Why is this event such a surprise to everyone and why should we automatically take the most negative spin on every bit of news?

Is it not possible that the delay in confirming was out of respect for the departing bishop? Could it be that Rome might be sorry to see him retire? Isn't it possible that the departing bishop may have been looking forward to this day?

Sounds like we're serving too much whine and cheese here!

OK flame retardant gear is in place! Light your torches!

Dear Coalesco,

Not all news is received negatively, and not all of us greet news that the Pope is directly involved in the internal workings of a Particular Church with the same happy spirit as you!

I'm sure he will be a great bishop.

The point is, shouldn't the approval of our Synod be sufficient?

Doesn't the Pope have better things to do in his own world-wide Diocese?

Do you think it is easy for him to travel to Spain and canonized five saints like he did?

We're just trying to ease his administrative load!

Alex

Good points! I would like to see conciliarity extended throughout the churches of this communion!

Actually, I would like to see a Ukrainian Synod within North America nominating the bishops. But that's just me and I'm not Ukrainian.

Michael

Another vote for the "Multicultural Cathodox Patriarchate of Parma"??? :p

Actually , I would have to say yes. If that is the best idea for promoting North American unity at this point I'd go for it.

Of course, there may be other ways. But the worst thing would be to stand still for another several generations.

Michael

Dear Two Lungs:

"Cathodox?" I like it.

As for the multicultural part, it's a lot harder from where we Ukies sit to sever ties with Lviv.

As this topic has beeen discussed previously, I'll be brief.

For those of us who stay part of the Ukrainian community, it's OUR church. Those who assimilate don't go seeking out a culturally-neutral Byzantine Catholic Church. They go to a Western Church (if at all).

To put it another way, the Byzantine Rite is part and parcel of being Ukrainian to most of us. Once certain people stop being Ukrainian, they stop being Byzantine (be it Greek-Catholic or Orthodox).

So, while your idea of a culturally-neutral Byzantine Church is admirable and required, I would respectfully submit that you won't be getting assimilated Ukies to join.

Yours,

kl

Dear Friends,

If the Pope can approve bishops for the good ol' US of A without Mother Angelica beginning an online petition about a "North American" based whatever, then the UGCC Synod in Lviv can nominate and approve bishops for North America - with the involvement of our Eparchies - as well.

I think a Church outside the parameters of its historic jurisdiction can have the best of both worlds - a relationship with an historic, Apostolical Patriarchate or Particular Church AND a strong, local episcopal administration in union with that Patriarchate that acts to serve the people's local needs.

Something similar occurs here in the Dominion of Canada.

Canada's Queen is Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada.

And The Queen is represented here by her Governor General and the Lieutenant Governors - her "team" so to speak.

And we do have a Primate/Patriarch who was trained in St Josaphat's Seminary in Washington.

The best of all worlds!

Alex

Dear Friends,

And there is no such thing as a "culturally neutral" anything.

People who believe that are North Americans . . .

Alex

Dear Coalesco,

I'm not that bothered by the amount of time it took to announce the new appointment, though I am a bit surprised. (Maybe the Synod nominates bishops well in advance, as they'll be needed "sooner or later"?) As I said, there is probably much that we don't, and won't, know.

What really bothers me is Rome's involvement in the process. I thought we had made some progress in assereting our identity and proper status.

Oh well, back to lots of hoping and praying.

Andrij

According to www.ugcc.org.ua, [ugcc.org.ua,] Fr. Stephen had already been selected as Bishop Cornelius' sucessor by the Synod in July of 2001.

Is this a typo? Check out http://www.ugcc.org.ua/ukr/press-releases/article;436/

It is currently only in Ukrainian.

Daniil

Dear Daniil,

Yes, we know he was selected by the Synod.

But why did he need papal approval?

It's like we're children in a candy store pointing which colour of jelly-beans we want and then when we finally decide, someone else says, "O.K., you can buy some."

Alex

Yes I understand, it is the undercurrent to all the comments here of course.

I appreciate the problem, I was just tossing some scat around! :rolleyes:

I love to visit the Ukrainian churches in my area, I take great pleasure in worshipping there and supporting in my own small way the Ukrainian parishes. I want them to do well, you Ukies should be proud. I do worry about the future of all Byzantine churches in North America though, and those problems go far beyond Papal control and meddling.

Please forgive me if I offend anyone here!

Michael

Dear Michael,

You don't offend anyone!

Alex

Dear Krylos Leader,

I know what you mean. You are describing my family. I am the only one who pays attention to things Byzantine or Ukrainian. My use of the term "multicultural" was intended as something of a joke. Multinational is more like it.

I think we need to continue working on the restoration of authentic Eastern traditions, but division of the Church into national chunks only serves to weaken us in dealing with the Roman Church and within the cultural environment around us.

A Slovak Eparchy with 5, or 6, or 8 Parishes? Non-Slovaks need not apply? Why --- because the larger Eparchy down the street is "Ukrainian", non-Ukrainians need not apply. Ukrainians who don't know the language need not apply either!

Others feel unwelcome, even when we would actually welcome them. Most of us would, wouldn't we? What appeal is there to the grandchildren of immigrants? To the English speaking Irish/Slovak/Rusyn/Italian/Ukrainian/Polish hybrids that are the Americans and Canadians?

Maybe, if we actually worked out some good chant in English. Maybe if we told our story in the language that the third and fourth generations understand. We really do have one of the greatest stories in the history of Christianity.

Anyway, to get back to the point of this thread, Why did the Pope appoint the new Bishop of Toronto? Because the Eparchy is a guest in the terrotory of the Western Patriarchate. Since Christopher Columbus claimed the hemisphere for Spain and the Catholic Church, and the Pope divided it between Spain and Portugal, this has been part of the Western Church.

As long as we have a "Ukrainian" Patriarchate, it will be in Ukraine, not including us. If we have a Byzantine Rite Kyivan Church with a worldwide scope, we can govern ourselves.

Thank you for liking "Cathodox". There have been a few others who have expressed their appreciation.

John
Pilgrim and Odd Duck