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LT,

Celibacy as a gift is different from mandatory celibacy.

Marriage between a man and a woman is one thing; marriage between a man and a man or a woman and another woman is another.

Sexual intimacy/relationship between a man and a woman is one thing; sexual intimacy/relationship between two men or two women is another.

Joe

AMDG

The priesthood is not mandatory, nor is it a "right."

But celibacy is.

For priests. Not for everyone. Thus the gift of celibacy comes with the vocation.

I think what Joe meant is that celibacy is mandatory for all unmarried people. Which is a separate issue from whether nor not priests can marry.

Then I'm confused.


(I know, I know, about a lot of things)

Apparently all persons with a homosexual orientation are also automatically gifted with the charism of celibacy, since the Church requires celibacy of them as well.

Lemko! I wrote to you about that! Here it is again:

AMDG
Dear Lemko Rusyn in Christ,
I was gone for a while, and since you said it was your last post I decided to reposnd privately. I think you misunderstand my post a little bit. I was not trying to draw a distinction between "gay" and "homosexual" persons. What I was trying to say, albeit poorly, was this:
God will always provide the grace for us to lead lives in accordance with His teaching. It is sometimes very hard (believe me I know!), but we must keep trying, and trusting that He will help us to eventually overcome all our temptations and bad habits. God has revealed to us (and also allowed us to discover by the light of reason) that homosexual acts are opposed to the meaning of sexuality as intended by God. Therefore, to engage in homosexual acts is to violate our human nature, and alienate ourselves from God. God does provide the grace for EVERY person who suffers from homosexual concupiscience to eliminate homosexual actions from their lives. Thus, my point about "homosexual persons" was not that there is a difference between homosexuals and gays, but that EVERY homosexual CAN live chastely with God's help. They are not irrevocably predestined to live in homosexual relationships or to commit acts of sodomy. Therefore, we cannot posit "rights" to homosexual "marriage", or to the adoption of children, etc. etc.
Every heterosexual person also suffers from temptations and concupiscience. It is NOT easy to resist sexual temptation. But, as St. Paul says, "I can do all things in Him Who strengthens me." The key is to trust not in oneself, but in the compassionate power of God.
I am sure that Our Lord looks with especial compassion on those who are afflicted with homosexual drives--He loves all men and desires that all be saved.
God Bless, Lemko. Let us pray for each other.
In Jesus and Mary,
LatinTrad

Dear Joe,

It is my insignificant opinion that if a group of Christians get to the point that the ordination of an openly practicing homosexual is even a possibillity, the problem is already there. Whether he is ordained or not, the fact that there are so many members of this group of Protestants who don't even have the spiritual antenas to discern the evil of those who affirm a life of sodomy, shows that Church is already on the brink of spriritual bankruptcy. The same can be said for a nation which legalizes the murder of innocent pre-born human babies and the murder of its elderly. Whether approved or not, the sad state of affairs already exists. May God spare the Catholic and Orthodox Churches such a deprivation of evangelical truth among its members and leaders.

Trusting in Christ's Light,

Wm. Der Ghazarian

>>>>It is my insignificant opinion that if a group of Christians get to the point that the ordination of an openly practicing homosexual is even a possibillity, the problem is already there. Whether he is ordained or not, the fact that there are so many members of this group of Protestants who don't even have the spiritual antenas to discern the evil of those who affirm a life of sodomy, shows that Church is already on the brink of spriritual bankruptcy<<<<

I am 1000% in agreement with your statement Ghazar! Unfortunately I believe, in light of the priest scandals, that our leadership isn't much different than the group you named above. It was after all the laity that called our bishops to task. Many of these bishops saw nothing wrong and still don't!

In another post someone says that homosexual men cannot be 'called' to the priesthood by the Holy Spirit. My question then is-how did so many manage to get ordained? Did the ordaining bishops act against the Holy Spirit?

This is not an attempt to bait anyone, but rather a nagging question I've had for many years.

Sam

AMDG
Sam,
In such cases, the ordaining bishops either acted against the Holy Spirit (and the specific 1960 instruction of the Vatican that is still in force), or were deceived.
The fact is, however, that a conspiracy to do the impossible--i.e. to destroy Christ's Church--has surfaced. May we preserve our Faith in the words of the Word--the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church.
LT

Oh I am so sorry for adding more scandal than they already have. But, the Episcopalians have delayed voting because of information that has serviced about there bishop elect and his whatever towards a heterosexual male.

Is it wrong to rejoice? It is like God has brought truth to the forefront of this situation.

Rose

?? Lemko, ALL CHRISTIANS are called to practice chastity. Either marriage or "nada". That has *always* been the clear teaching of the Church.

And it's difficult for heterosexuals as well as homosexuals. Do you really think all single people in today's society are "gifted" with the "charism" of celibacy? It's an uphill battle for ALL of us!

(I was going to say, "no one gets a free ride", but decided that could be misinterpreted ... )

Dear Rose,
Yes, I think it is wrong to rejoice, although if these allegations are true, better to have it brought to light before the vote.

And I use the word "light", because even when the Catholic scandal was brewing I could not help but think of the scripture "what is done in the dark will be brought into the light" or close to that. About 15 years ago, my brother-in-law from Dallas was telling us about the scandal there. I was angry almost to the point of leaving the church. Angry that the church would pay off families to keep quiet.

The Church should have brought to light AT THAT TIME what was occuring rather than cover it up. "What is done in the dark will be brought into the light". People may have been more understanding if the Church had been more contrite.
denise
(sorry to get off subject)

Thanks LT.

If they did 'go against the Holy Spirit' why?
If they were deceived, don't they as shepherds have a responsibility to God and His people to clean up their mistakes, using their own law?

As for the gay bishop who admits it- it seems like after the Catholic Scandal, the dam broke and it became open season (excuse the pun). How can the Vatican speak with any credibility against immorality of gay behaviors now when it is obvious its own backyard is full of them?

I don't subscribe to many conspiracy theories, but the timing for the gay marriage agenda and gay bishops seems to be just right.

I do believe the Church will prevail, but not before many innocent souls are lost. Sad.

Sam