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#344310 02/27/10 04:26 AM
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I found this survey interesting: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html

Of course, I don't know how scientific it is. But I imagine it's about right. I actually generally tend to think that religious people, at least in America, are probably on-average less intelligent than agnostics and atheists in America.

The trouble is I think some people think this proves something, e.g. God doesn't exist or religion is hogwash, which of course it does not.

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Perhaps it has something to do with highly intelligent people having been exposed to brainwashing and indoctrination for longer periods of time in our institutions of higher learning.

The study had an interesting definition of liberalism, one which has historically been associated with religious people, particularly Christians.

"The study takes the American view of liberal vs. conservative. It defines "liberal" in terms of concern for genetically nonrelated people and support for private resources that help those people. "

Elizabeth

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Elizabeth,

I thought the same thing.

I also thought it interesting that the performers of the study self-identified as conservative and libertarian.

Alexis

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"sexual exclusivity in men" -- isn't that MOSTLY men who devote their whole lives to the love and service of their families (or Church) ?

I guess according to that Christian Monks, Devoted Catholics and Orthodox have all higher IQs...

eli #344371 02/28/10 03:31 AM
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This study is obviously false:

"The fool saith in his heart, there is no God,"

Psalms 14 and 53


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Most IQ tests have some bias in them. Phrasing of questions and interpretation of the answers can cause noticably different scores:
http://webspace.ship.edu/cgboer/intelligence.html

It would be interesting to see the test data from the CNN article [cnn.com] :
"Evolutionary psychologist Satoshi Kanazawa at the the London School of Economics and Political Science correlated data on these behaviors with IQ from a large national U.S. sample and found that, on average, people who identified as liberal and atheist had higher IQs."


CNN and its parent company Time Warner are liberal corporations which would likely bias them to favor a report showing higher intellegence among liberals.

Last edited by Steve Petach; 02/28/10 04:20 PM.
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An interesting side note-

Atheists invited to join Vatican Council for outreach initiative

VATICAN, Feb. 25, 2010-- The Pontifical Council for Culture has announced that it is creating a foundation to focus on relations with atheists and agnostics. The president of the Council announced the initiative on Wednesday as a response to Pope Benedict's call to "renew dialogue with men and women who don't believe but want to move towards God."

Speaking with the Italian Bishops' Conference's Avvenire newspaper, Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, president of the Pontifical Council for Culture (PCC), outlined the objectives of the foundation, called "The Courtyard of the Gentiles."

"Firstly," he said, it is "to create a network of agnostic or atheistic people who accept dialogue and enter as members into the foundation and, as such, into our dicastery."

Archbishop Ravasi listed further objectives of starting relations with atheistic organizations, studying the "spiritual place" of non-believers and developing "themes of rapport between religion, society, peace and nature."

"With this initiative, we would like to help everyone to step out of a poor conception of believing, (and) promote the understanding that theology has scientific dignity" and a founding in nature, he continued.

These themes, said Archbishop Ravasi, would be addressed in a yearly conference, the first of which will take place in "the second half of this year, probably in Paris." (CNA)
http://www.cbcpnews.com/?q=node/12379

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Dr. Eric,

I don't think it's obviously false. One can have a very high IQ and be foolish. One can have a low IQ and be very wise.

Steve,

However, the researchers themselves did not only not self-identify as liberals, one self-identified as a conservative and the other a libertarian. So I wouldn't see too much sense for at least conscious bias.

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
I found this survey interesting: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/liberals.atheists.sex.intelligence/index.html

Of course, I don't know how scientific it is. But I imagine it's about right. I actually generally tend to think that religious people, at least in America, are probably on-average less intelligent than agnostics and atheists in America.

The trouble is I think some people think this proves something, e.g. God doesn't exist or religion is hogwash, which of course it does not.

Alexis

I think that the reason for this is the sin and passion of pride...

When men and women are great students, intelligent, worthy of secular praise, and lauded for their achievements and their career successes, it is very easy for them to become so full of themselves and their self worth that God, religion, spirituality and faith get severely swept under the rug and cast aside.

Such men and/or women tend to believe that their living well, progressing, advancing, etc. in *the world* has been due to their self reliance and talents, and not because of a reliance on the Almighty or even gratitude to Him for granting these gifts.

There also ensues a preoccupation with life and career, (whether it be scientific, academic or business) that writes God out of the equation. The easier it is to get on in modern life without God in the equation, the easier it is for men/women to stop even acknowledging His existence.

Even those who are not atheist, but agnostic, do not allow the time to humble themselves in silence, in order for God's spirit to speak to them..and His spirit is found in nature, in other men and women, in acts of kindness, charity and bravery, and ofcourse, in prayer...

That is why I bow in reverence to those men and women of greatness, of wealth, of success, found moreso in this country than any other (though decreasing with the generations) who stand up for God, who profess their faith and who act on it. They are fully aware that what they contribute is owed to God who gifted them with the abilities and opportunities to achieve.

...this is just my analysis based on observation-- for what it is worth.

In Christ,
Alice

Alice #344520 03/02/10 03:28 PM
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IQ ...
hummm...

Any test to measure spiritual IQ?

In my studies in education) we have debated IQ tests many times, and I have read many researches debating the true value of the test, some even dared to challenge and redefine what IQ stands for.

The fact is that God have created all people equal but unique in their own way. Each has their own kind of intelligence in which they excel - IQ tests simply fail to test all skill and all aspects of intelligence.

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Eli,

It is worthwhile to note that the whole concept of IQ was developed by adherents of the eugenics movement in the early 20th Century.

Although eugenics became unpopular in the later 20th Century because of Hitler, the movement is still very much alive and not likely to go away any time soon. People still believe Darwin was right, and as a result many of them believe the survival of the human race depends on our leveraging the Darwinian principle of "survival of the fittest." (Naturally, IQ is an important measure of fitness.)

May God grant that we may see the truth of all this before it's too late!


Peace,
Deacon Richard

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Originally Posted by Logos - Alexis
Steve,

However, the researchers themselves did not only not self-identify as liberals, one self-identified as a conservative and the other a libertarian. So I wouldn't see too much sense for at least conscious bias.

Alexis

While the researchers themselves might not have consciously identified as liberal, the publication, CNN/Turner Broadcasting, editorialises its content with a deliberate liberal bias.

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I would ask that we include the words of Father Benedict Groeschel, whom we can see on EWTN. He spoke at one time about the recent books by atheists, books that state their reasons for rejecting religious faith.

Father Groeschel commented on how poorly written these books were. In his literary critique, he stated "They give atheism a bad name."

The IQ debate will go on, but I feel certain we should not expect to find a more devastating criticism of written works. When a priest asserts that some people give atheism a bad name, those people need to do a better job of writing.


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Modern Dawkins-style atheism is just vulgar, primitive, mindless and offensive. It resembles Comrade Gubelman's Society of the Militant Godless of the Soviet Union.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_the_Godless

There were really smart and talented atheists in the past, but I am not aware of any contemporary counterparts.

Also, it's a different atheism when you feel "orphaned by God" and are desperately looking for substitutes (like Friedrich Nietzsche, a smart and talented atheist - probably nobody knows more about modern culture than him, as Fr Seraphim Rose pointed out), than when you just hate God, religion etc. up to the level of blind denial.

For those rational men, St. Thomas Aquinas provides good arguments for the existence of God in his Summa Theologica. They are not beaten by Dawkins' insults.

Western theology says that faith is an act of reason, will and God's grace. I think we must not forget about the second and third element.

Last edited by PeterPeter; 03/09/10 05:07 PM.

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