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The former Episcopal priest and father of two will become the first married priest in the Nashville diocese.

He was ordained today [tinyurl.com] to the priesthood in the Latin Church.

Also, Sunday, 2/16/2010, Fr Loya [catholicradiointernational.com] had some interesting observations on some of the challenges for the married priesthood re ECs in the US.

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Originally Posted by DTBrown
The article on married priests is being discussed over at Mark Shea's blog [markshea.blogspot.com] (popular RC writer). I am surprised that at least one respondent there seemed comfortable with the idea perhaps of having Orthodox Bishops under the Latin Rite in a reunion scenario. Hopefully, he was pointing out the logical inconsistency of such an idea as I think ideas like that would kill any reunion talk.

I was one of the posters (maiki) in that thread... I'm not sure who you were referring to. I was certainly not implying Orthodox Bishops should be under the Latin Rite! That does seem logically inconsistent. (Maybe you are referring to someone else, however. I just wanted to clear up that I did not mean such a thing). In any talks of reunion, Bishops should remain Bishops of their own particular churches. All I implied is that I think a major area of conflict arises from the fact that it is impossible to hold to "one city, one bishop, one church" when there are many particular churches in one city -- thus, a notion of jurisdictional conflict resolution needs to exist, and not simply submitting to the Bishop of Rome's/Latin rite's opinion.

-Mariana

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Originally Posted by Mariana
Originally Posted by DTBrown
The article on married priests is being discussed over at Mark Shea's blog [markshea.blogspot.com] (popular RC writer). I am surprised that at least one respondent there seemed comfortable with the idea perhaps of having Orthodox Bishops under the Latin Rite in a reunion scenario. Hopefully, he was pointing out the logical inconsistency of such an idea as I think ideas like that would kill any reunion talk.

I was one of the posters (maiki) in that thread... I'm not sure who you were referring to. I was certainly not implying Orthodox Bishops should be under the Latin Rite! That does seem logically inconsistent. (Maybe you are referring to someone else, however. I just wanted to clear up that I did not mean such a thing). In any talks of reunion, Bishops should remain Bishops of their own particular churches. All I implied is that I think a major area of conflict arises from the fact that it is impossible to hold to "one city, one bishop, one church" when there are many particular churches in one city -- thus, a notion of jurisdictional conflict resolution needs to exist, and not simply submitting to the Bishop of Rome's/Latin rite's opinion.

-Mariana

We Orthodox have been struggling with the one bishop, one city issue in the US and Canada for over one hundred years with no real solution in sight.

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The only real solution to the "One Bishop One City" problem is to have the multiple bishops i neighboring cities have overlapping parallel jurisdictions, or to have submission to a central authority which can sort out the mess and has the political will to do so.

In short, it's curable save for human frailty.... since no one group wants to give up it's autonomy nor identity to another in order to solve a relatively minor canonical issue.

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A hypothetical question: Assuming that the mass migrations and permanent resettlement of peoples into lands with many competing cultures, each with their particular rubrics, hierarchy and customs, was likely neither envisioned nor confronted during the first millennium of the Church by the seven councils or the fathers, east or wes; why is that we modern peoples apparently lack the ability, insight or inspiration to devise earthly solutions to those newly presented problems which confront us? I suspect aramis already answered this but I am interested in other thoughts as well. Thanks.

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An interesting news item and video [orthocath.wordpress.com] from a recent conference in Rome where a Catholic theologian shares his view that celibacy should be promoted in the Eastern Catholic Churches.

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Santayana comes to mind, "Those who forget the past, are condemned to repeat it."

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I was curious about Father Touze and, with a bit of checking, find that he is a theologian at the Pontifical Institute of the Holy Cross, run by Opus Dei.

My only comment - I agree with my brother, DMD.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Dear friends,

I call your attention to the following Interview [zenit.org] published in Zenit.

I personally disagree deeply with the reasoning, but I would like to hear your views.

The translation, I'm afraid, is very poor...

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One Traditionalist Catholic blog [rorate-caeli.blogspot.com] picked up the article, apparently favorably endorsing its premise. Sadly, it was entitled: "Eastern Catholicism and Clerical Celibacy." Thankfully, some of the responses show some sense. Its disconcerting that such views are still held in some quarters. I was very disappointed that Zenit published this.

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I don't think Rorate is endorsing the theologian's view in the article. In fact, most likely the opposite. They're very supportive of the Eastern Catholic Churches. But, I believe at least one person involved with the blog is actually a member of this forum and may be along shortly to clarify their position.

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I hope you're right. After this article [rorate-caeli.blogspot.com] on Rorate, I was quite concerned.

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I was curious about Father Touze and, with a bit of checking, find that he is a theologian at the Pontifical Institute of the Holy Cross, run by Opus Dei.


That's kind of scary...I thought a theologian at a Pontfical Institute should be "the best of the best".

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http://www.zenit.org/article-28589?l=english

MARRIED PRIESTS WILL ALWAYS BE AN EXCEPTION

Interview With Theologian on the Foundations of Celibacy

By Carmen Elena Villa

ROME, MARCH 9, 2010 (Zenit.org).- Married priests are an exception and the Church is increasingly convinced that they must remain so, according to a spiritual theology professor at the Pontifical University of the Holy Cross.

Father Laurent Touze explained the foundations of priestly celibacy when he spoke at a two-day conference held last week at Rome's Pontifical University of the Holy Cross. The conference, "Priestly Celibacy: Theology and Life," was sponsored by the Congregation for the Clergy as an event for the Year for Priests.

ZENIT spoke with Father Touze about the exceptions to priestly celibacy and the future of celibacy for the Church.

ZENIT: Is celibacy a dogma of faith or a discipline?

Father Touze: Neither one nor the other. It isn't a dogma of faith because we see married priests in the Church today such as, for example, some [priests] of the Eastern Catholic Church. Not all but some admit married priests. Or as has been reminded recently in the Holy Father's motu propio "Anglicanorum coetibus," published last Nov. 4: Among the ex-Anglicans who want to return to communion with the Catholic Church, there will be married priests admitted.

ZENIT: With this measure, do you think that one day, celibacy might become voluntary also for priests of the Latin rite?

Father Touze: No, because the Church is understanding more and more the relation between priesthood, episcopate and celibacy. It is something that could be likened to the revelation of a dogma, though it isn't so at this time; one tends increasingly to understand that a practice must be promoted among all priests and also among Eastern Catholic priests which is truly similar to the one lived in the first centuries.

ZENIT: But in the first centuries there were many married priests, including the Apostles?

Father Touze: Studies have convincingly shown that this must be questioned: Celibacy of all clerics wasn't lived, but from the moment of inclusion in the priestly order these men had to live continence with the permission of their wives, because this was a commitment of the couple.

ZENIT: Why, then, are exceptions made?

Father Touze: Historically because there has been a manipulation of texts and I believe a bad translation that the Eastern Church, which has separated from Rome and has recognized that what they had declared contrary to tradition, could be accepted. In this connection there truly are some exceptions. The Church discovered that she had the possibility of admitting exceptions but that these should be understood as such. Respectably, as the Second Vatican Council stressed, there are very holy married priests in the Eastern Catholic Churches who have contributed much to the history of the Church and to the faith in times of persecution, but they are truly exceptions and must be understood as such.

ZENIT: However, these exceptions are not made with bishops. Does episcopal celibacy have a special meaning?

Father Touze: Undoubtedly. It is very different, both theologically as well as historically. What's more, with the constitution "Lumen Gentium," Vatican II defined that the episcopate is the fullness of the sacrament of Holy Orders. It is necessary to discover the specificity of the episcopate and, hence, episcopal celibacy. And it can be demonstrated with the fact that for the celibacy or continence of a bishop an exception has never been made.

This is something studied by the Church on which the Roman pontificate has had to reflect more recently in contemporary history on two occasions: after the French Revolution, where some bishops, or better, former bishops, asked to marry.

This has been studied and it has been said that it is impossible, that this had never been done, that at stake was the dogmatic issue. Or still recently with the ordination of married men and married bishops that were effected in former Czechoslovakia by imposition or with the pressure of the Communist Party in power. There also the Church affirmed on the fact that the bishop must always be celibate or if he had married before his ordination because he would have to live continence from the moment of his episcopal ordination.

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Originally Posted by Job
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I was curious about Father Touze and, with a bit of checking, find that he is a theologian at the Pontifical Institute of the Holy Cross, run by Opus Dei.


That's kind of scary...I thought a theologian at a Pontfical Institute should be "the best of the best".

That may be, but association with Opus Dei somewhat guarantees a very narrow viewpoint, to my way of thinking.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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