www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Metripolitan Athanasios in Cyprus

I am curious as to people's thoughts on what Metripolitan Athanasios had to say about the Pope.

http://www.impantokratoros.gr/visit_pope-cyprus.en.aspx





Met. Athanasios of Lemesou (Cyprus) Speaks Out of Upcoming Visit of Pope to Cyprus


In an interview published today, May 23, 2010 in the Cypriot Newspaper "Phileleftheros" the Metropolitan distances himself from the Archbishop's decision to host the Pope in Cyprus.
The following are excerpts from the interview:

"For us Orthodox, the Pope is a heretic, outside of the Church, and, hence, not even a bishop". (emphasis mine)

"He [the Pope] has been outside of the Church for ten centuries now, he is not a canonical bishop, he has no relation whatsoever to the reality of the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church of Christ. It is one thing to receive him as a canonical bishop and quite another to speak to him as [being] a heterodox in order to reveal to him the truth of the Orthodox Faith and Tradition." (emphasis mine)

"Dialogue is not a bad thing when it is carried out based on correct presuppositions. However, it is wrong to say to these people that we recognize them as a Church, that we recognize the Pope as a Bishop, as our brother in Christ in the priesthood and in [the] faith. I cannot accept this, because we are lying [when we say this], since all of the Holy Fathers teach exactly the opposite. Papism is a heresy and the source of many other heresies which trouble the entire world today. A contemporary Saint of the Church, Saint Justin Popovich, said that in the history of the human race there have been three tragic falls: of the first-formed Adam, of the disciple of Christ, Judas, and of the Pope, who, when he was the first Bishop of the Church, fell from the apostolic faith, was cut off from the canonical Church and lured away a host of people with him until today."

"God is one and the Church of God is one, and that is why we say in the Symbol of Faith [that we believe] "in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church." This is the Orthodox Church, there do not exist many Churches."

"When I say to the other that it doesn't matter that you are catholic and that we all belong to the same Church, I am playing with him [or mocking him] since all of the Holy Fathers teach that the Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church of Christ is one."

"The Orthodox Church preserves the faith of the Apostles and the experience of the prophets unshakeable up until our own days. The Papists, unfortunately, from the time when they were cut off from the Church added many heretics dogmas to their [confession of] faith, changed the Symbol of Faith [the Nicene Creed] and above all elevated the Pope to the level of being the eminent and unique representative of God on earth."

"When you add things to the Symbol of Faith that the Holy Fathers did not write, and many other false teachings, this is heresy. This is the reality of things."

Question : How does the Orthodox Church encounter/deal with heretics?

"With much love. We love the Pope, we love the papists just as we love every person; we do not despise them, we do not reject them as persons, but we do not accept [their] heresy, we do not accept the false teachings, we do not accept [their] delusions. Because we love them we must tell them the truth."

"Question: Do you think that the Dialogue can produce results?

"It can, if it is done properly and based on the right presuppositions. Unfortunately, as it is carried out today, it does not produce results, and that is why they have carried on discussions for so many years without coming to any conclusions."

"Frankly and before all I disagree with the coming of the Pope to Cyprus and I say with my whole soul that the Pope is a heretic, he is not a bishop, he is not an Orthodox Christian and this is what the Holy Fathers say. If I am wrong, I am ready to be corrected, but on the basis of the Holy Fathers, not based on the mindset of globalization. Just because I disagree does not mean that I am being disorderly and am outside the Church [as some have claimed]."

"The Pope always speaks in a formal manner, says things which are customary [to his position], as he will say now that he will come to Cyprus, but he will do nothing of essence, because he is not the leader of the Church but a political person who cannot come into conflict with the political establishment and system. Did the Pope every speak up for the Orthodox Church?...But I am not returning back [to the distant past]. The reasons I am reacting today are purely theological. When I was consecrated a bishop I pledged to preserve the Orthodox Faith."

"Question: The Pope said that he wants to make a pilgrimage following the steps of the Apostle Paul.

"With the exception that the Apostle Paul didn't travel using a bulletproof car which cost 500,000 euros, which, I read, the Cypriot government has bought for the Pope to travel around Cyprus for the two days he will be here. I was personally quite scandalized by this news and said that a bulletproof car does not fit the Vicar of Christ. For the people to have to pay such a price in the midst of an economic crisis..."

Question : The announcement from the representatives of the Pope says that he is coming to Cyprus in order to promote human and Christian values and principles, and that he wants to walk in the steps of the Apostle Paul and in a spirit of the brotherhood meet the Orthodox Church with a good disposition.

"I do not doubt his good will - may it be that this is the case. May it be that he resembles the Apostle Paul and that he encounters the riches of the Orthodox Church. We pray that he return to the Orthodox Church and becomes once again an Orthodox Bishop as he was before the schism. This alone is the proper path to unity."

Question : What do you think is the hidden agenda?

"The Vatican does not take steps thoughtlessly nor naively. Every tour of each Pope has as its aim to present him as the worldwide leader of Christianity. At this point, however, he is neither a canonical Bishop, nor Orthodox, such that he is in no place to present himself as having the first place among bishops."

Question: Are there hidden political interests at stake here?

"I don't know; I think that we [the Cypriot people] have nothing to gain politically from the visit of the Pope - only a lot of expenses and great upheavel in the consciences of the faithful."

Question: The Archbishop said that all those who disagree will place themselves outside the Church.

"I am not aware of the Archbishop's statements, but I don't think that whoever disagrees with the coming of the Pope places himself outside the Church. I disagree and I say it boldly and frankly and I am not outside the Church."

Well, if you think someone is a heretic and that his See has been so for 1000 years, then you have to conclude that they are noncanonical and outside the church, yes?

For better or for worse, there are lots of Orthodox who believe this (there are also plenty who don't). And the former certainly can cite ample canons and the like to back up their statements.

What does this mean for ecumenism, church-to-church relations, or whatever you want to call it? I think it was best said by another monk who thinks the Pope is a heretic, though whose explanation is far deeper (and IMO more convincing), who said something to the effect of "the only way to unity is for each of us to authentically live our Christian vocations".

Finally, as far as Metropolitan Athanasios is concerned, he spent many years at the Monastery of Vatopedi - allegedly the most populous and richest monastery on Mount Athos, whose Byzantine chant CDs are the gold standard of said CDs IMO. His line of thought is the dominant one over there, from the little I saw of it. Don't form an impression by however you view one interview - he's the main "character" of a book called "The Mountain of Silence" which I also happen to think is one of the best introductions to Byzantine spirituality available. I think that book is more indicative of what God has worked in the man, and based on that I would definitely would have said "axios" at his enthronement.

Markos

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"Union with God, not through words and theories, but through experience and illumination, is the goal of our sojourn on earth..."

- Fr. Maximos of the Monastety of Simonopetra

Markos,

First of all, I want to thank you for your charitable response to the metropolitan's comments. It is so easy for us to get defensive when we feel the Pope is being attacked, but it's just that kind of defensiveness that has kept us separate for all these centuries.


I certainly agree with this! It has also been stated that true ecumenism does not seek to minimize or trivialize our differences, but to state them clearly and help everyone to understand them better.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

I think it is best to leave this alone. Bishop Athanasios has inspired many by his beautiful words in 'Mountain of Silence' and with the charisma and spirituality of his sermons which are regularly heard in Greece and Cyprus on the radio (and by me on the internet)...

I will admit that I was somewhat saddened, and even surprised by his harsh stand, but as Marcos said, I suppose we need to put his opinions in the context of him being from Mt. Athos, since that is where he received his spiritual and religious formation-and although the monks of Mt. Athos are holy, infact, VERY holy men--they deem themselves as 'guardians of the Orthodox faith', and will not let go of that. They have also had little need for contact and coopertion of any kind with members of other faith traditions...in other words, the life of Mt. Athos is insular and not 'global' or 'national'...it focuses purely on matters of the soul within the parameters of Orthodox Christian teaching and tradition.

Everywhere else, there are geo-political and spiritual concerns for the survival of Christianity as a whole, but this is not the concern of those on the Holy Mountain. Perhaps also, with the title and identity of 'guardians of Orthodoxy', there also comes historical baggage, suspicion, fear, and a fundamentalism of belief that is indeed uncomfortable for some of us.

I pray that our Lord will have mercy on us all and enlighten us to His Holy Will...since, we are all human with our different opinions: monk, cleric, bishop, pope or layman. Amen.

--Alice

Christ is in our midst!! He is and always will be!!

I think his Eminence's remarks are good for us when we think that the healing of a thousand year wound will be done overnight. There are many hearts that have been wounded over this, too, and the monk mentioned above is on the right track when he reminds us that we need to attract each other by the way we live our lives. It works here in a microcosm, but even here, the venom and vitriol can flow. We , perhaps, delude ourselves that our hearts are a bit more open, but . . . So how are we to expect things to be different in the larger communiites in which we live where hearts are, perhaps, not so open?

I see the Holy Spirit at work in His Eminence. The Holy spirit is reminding us that we will not achieve this mending of the broken Body of Christ on our own or with our own devices. He will mend it in His own good time and with the methods He desires to use. He also reminds us that the Pearl of Great Price is not something to be found by reducing everything to some "lowest common denominator" as C. S. Lewis did in his book, "Mere Christianity." The greatest challenge for us all is to see the Holy Spirit moving amidst those who are not like us or like those with whom we commune. Holiness seems to jump out of places and people we don't expect--another challenge to our attempts to heal this grievous wound.

And this wound not only divides us, but it impoverishes us and limits us, even though it erupted between two men with bad tempers anbd big egos. Though there are many issues that lead up to the final rupture, things seemed to have some sort of way of live and let live--like a family that has issues but who stick with each other despite them simply because the members are family.

So let's take His Eminence's words to heart. He speaks as an Apostle charged with preserving the Faith as he has received it. We may not like the way in which he has expressed it, but he is honest in his expression and in the way he lives his life. He is also an inspired preacher of the truth, as Alice has said. And that's ultimatley what true ecumenism is about--speaking the truth even when it is difficult for the other person to hear; and we have to assume he does it in charity as we all ought to do.

In Christ,

Bob

Bob,

I have often wondered why the Church, possessing the greatest power in the universe, has often throughout history seemed so impotent--unable to manage its own affairs, much less win the world for Christ.

Certainly, this has to do with the fact that the Church must follow in the steps of her Master, who while He seemed impotent on the Cross, was actually achieving the victory over death!

However, ISTM that historically, the problem can be traced all the way back to the original schism--that between Christians and Jews. The Apostles had worked very hard to convey the message, "this is not a new religion, but the fulfillment of the Law and the Prophets," while at the same time the Jewish leaders were working just as hard to convey the opposite message. History certainly shows who won out here, and by the end of the 1st Century, it was generally conceded that there were two distinct camps, "Christians" and "Jews," and each considered the others to be apostates.

In fact, it seems to have been an unwritten law for most of the Church's history: "have charity towards all, EXCEPT FOR HERETICS AND JEWS!" (And of course, the number of those being rejected as heretics just kept growing and growing ...)

Anyway, I really think your comment, "this wound not only divides us, but it impoverishes us and limits us," is spot on. It will be interesting to see what power is set loose once this wound is healed!


Peace,
Deacon Richard