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I once heard that the Eastern Rites are traditional but now i see that the SSPX,a Latin Rite organizationhas counterparts in Ukraine within The Fraternity of St.Josaphat and has traditonal churches in Stanislawow[Ivano-Frankovsk,ohh how i detest that name] and Bogurodzany,Ukraine.Also I hear there are Biritual Redemptorists with a monastery in Scotland with represenitives from many rites.
Now with so info i will get back to the subject, If the Eastern rites are Traditional and becoming more Traditional,then why are Catholics searching in theses Rites searching for Tradition?

Dear RP,

I cannot say that I am the best informed about this issue, and there are probably a few dimensions to this phenomena, but it appears that the Transalpine Redemptorists and their kind are involved in the most Latinised community.

There was still a considerable amount of Latinization in the eastern churches under the communists. Probably attempts by the ROC to return these communities to the traditional practices were resented. Latinization may have been a major reason why some parishes opted to resurrect the UGCC. There are several members of this forum who could comment on this better than I ever could.

If that is so, I am sure there could be a hostile reaction to any attempts by the hierarchy to restore the valid K'yivan traditions. The Transalpine Redemptorists and others are poised to exploit such divisions within the church.

Michael

Actually the voluntary self-segregation of crackpots can be a blessing for those of more, ah, "mainstream" persuasions. History teaches us that movements striving to be more Catholic than the Pope seldom have much staying power.
Of greater interest to your humble and obedient servant is the question of why one of our posters objects so strongly to the place-name Ivano-Frankivsk. Ivan Franko is (despite being deceased) an important Ukrainian poet; I much prefer seeing his name attached to the Ukrainian city in question than seeing a Polish king's name attached to the Ukrainian city in question.
Incognitus

The SSPX has some small communities in Russia and they're served by Orthodox priests (or who also function as Orthodox from what Father Stehlin writes in his articles) they're very Eastern and Russian.

However the SSPX also has under its omophor a certain Society of st Josaphat who defends all the latinizations which are in fact the equivalent of the modernist practices that the SSPX has always condemned. This could make the SSPX loose the inmense prestige it has among Orthodox Christians as defenders of tradition.

RP,

Not clear from your post whether or not you are aware that the Transalpine Redemptorists are affiliated with the SSPX; they are. As I understand your question, you are wondering why Catholics seek traditionalism elsewhere, when there is a traditional environment available to them in the Eastern Churches. I think it depends on the traditionalism which one seeks - to a lot of these folk, "Latin" is traditionalism par excellence and we don't offer that. (Although we do offer Latinizations at selected sites. A complete list of parishes is available; send a self-addressed stamped #10 envelope, together with a large monetary donation in small denomination unmarked bills, enclosed in a plain brown envelope, to: Latinish Is Us, PO Box 666, Bugscuffle, TN. )

Seriously, though, our Churches represent, in most instances, a unique cultural as well as religious experience and many folks aren't necessarily ready for that. As well, we aren't a sanctuary for those reject the liturgical form that their Church has adopted. It's the wrong reason to become one of us; our raison d'etre is not to offer an alternative to an unavailable Tridentine Mass for folks who don't want to have to go over to the SSPX.

Many years,

Neil

Dear Neil,
Well, you never know what may be awaiting us. I once took a Roman Catholic friend to attend the Gallican Divine Liturgy in Paris (there's a nice Orthodox church in Paris where the Gallican Liturgy is in regular use). My friend - who speaks no French - said that to him the Gallican Liturgy seemed to be a sort of Tridentine Byzantine service.
Incognitus

Incognitus,

And, of course, among our vagante brethren, I suspect that there is somewhere at least one "Byzantine Tridentine Rite Liturgy" - there's every other variation for which one might wish.

Blessed Pascha my friend.

Many years,

Neil

PS Heard any good rumors lately? All quiet at this end - or, if not, no one is sharing.

Incognitus Stanislawow or Stanislaviv is named after St.Stanislaus,marytr and bishop.Also there is another one that says it is named after a noblemen's son.

You people may think I am one of those traditionalist who don't know anything about the East.But then your are wrong.Actually a internet priest who has a forum,when ever asked about Latin Rite traditionalists in the Eastern rites says,I am paraphrasing "The battle your need to fight is in The Latin Rite so didn't put your heads in the sand and go to other rites.Fight for your rite and protect it. He also says that a Latin cannot go to the eASTERN RITE WITHOUT PERMISSION OF THE HOLY SEE.

Actually, Dear RP, what "we people" are now thinking is that you are one of those "traditionalists" without proper manners and respect.

Although new to this forum, you have violated the dictates of courtesy and the spirit of the Great Fast and insulted the intelligence of deeply respected members of this community, about whose background you remain blissfully unaware, in I might add, totally appalling English, while purporting to teach us all about LANGUAGE.

Please, while the forum welcomes everyone's well considered contributions, I would recommend a few days reading posts from people. In this way, you will avoid statements like the one you made about changing rites, which has been discussed often, in a more civil tone.

I ask your forgiveness for any pain my words have caused, and look forward to reading your more considered posts in the future.

Gaudior, in sorrow

Dear RP,

This is Great Lent - we are trying to reflect on -- shall I say--- suitable topics ?

My blood pressure is rising rapidly and possibly dangerously .

Please may I very humbly suggest that for the rest of Great Lent you sit back , get the flavour of the Forum and it's members and then after Pascha join in with us celebrating the Risen Lord and re-commence posting.

If I have caused offence with my comment then I beg pardon and ask for your forgiveness

Anhelyna the Eastward tilting Latin

Hmm I could take issue with a lot of this post RP .

But I will be brief and make the following points - and please do remember I am Latin.

1) The Eastern Churches do not want new members from disaffected Roman Catholics. People who come to the East because of what they see as abuses etc wanting what to them is the pure Pre Vatican II Litrugy will not be happy in the East either - far too many have tried it before - and wish to change the beautiful spiritually uplifting Divine Liturgy of St John into what they think it should be - an imitation of the Tridentine Mass

2) Incredibly I agree with this Priest [ BTW are you absolutely certain of his credentials ?] you should try and work to correct what you perceive are abuses - and this should be done from within the Church

3) As far as I know if you wish to Transfer Rite it can be done by agreement of the 2 Hierarchs concerned - though both have to be convinced as to your sincerity. Many people on this Forum have been granted a Change in this way - none to my knowledge had to petition Rome. It is not a speedy Transfer - some Bishops ask that you worship and live in the Eastern Community for up to 3 years before considereing a request for a change of Rite

The Eastern Churches do not want new members from disaffected Roman Catholics....

Well, most of these who change rites do so because they obviously find that the Eastern Rite and its spirituality suits them better than the modern rites of the Roman Church (or even the old one).

And you're very right about how they would most likely not feel happy in the Catholic Eastern Rites either, or even the mainstram Orthodox Churches, particularly in the United States since most of them are now adopting the same reforms that they found repulsive when introduced in the Latin Rite: the translation of the Divine Liturgy to familiar modern English, shortened litanies and prayers, the relaxation of the fasting periods, saturday evening liturgies, etc.

TROLL!

This one did.

"Stanislawow[Ivano-Frankovsk,ohh how i detest that name"


Get real, Ivano Frankivsk is a Ukrainian city so stop whining and deal with it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!