www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News December 24 picket planned by Orthodox in front of the Catholic cathedral of Moscow

I do not know if it was done for that reason. I do know that it was a time of a lot of reactions in order to look more "American" or in other words to appear more in line with the Roman Catholic Church including of all things the disappearance of the iconostasis from many churches.

There were many things done at that time in the Byzantine Church that would be unacceptable now under the premise of being true to your "roots" that the Eastern Catholic Churches since Vatican II have been returning to. In one history that I read, it was very slanted against Bishop Basil during this period, but no real reason was given for the calendar change.

Also in Greece, all of the parishes under the Latin jurisdiction there, make no accomodation for any calendar or ritual change to accomodate the local practices. I have been to a vigil mass at Saint Dionysius Cathedral in Athens, and it was a regular Novous Ordo mass using the Roman calendar. It is only the tiny Byzantine Rite community that follow the any of the adaptations to the Orthodox community. They are a minority in regards to the Latin dioceses there (I believe only 3-4 parishes in total).

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Dear Friends,

Yes, I can't believe the Russians would do such a thing!

However, those of you who think the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar doesn't rip apart entire communities and families - think again!

When I was growing up, some Ukrainian groups wanted to hold a New Year's party on December 31st and with the blessing of our Bishop.

There then formed a committee of Ukies whose goal it was to protest this and demonstrate against it.

My father was the organizer one year and said that if those guys came anywhere near their private function with their placards, he'd call the police . . .

Then we started having turkey on December 25th . . . well, everything went to the dogs then!

The Roman Catholic Church in Russia does not only serve non-ethnic Russians - their parishes also attract Russians who become RC's and recently there was a documentary about this. My in-laws were "over there" and also visited a Latin parish that serves Mass in Russian for Russian converts.

When my father-in-law asked the Latin priest why he doesn't use the Byzantine Rite at least, the priest said, "Because that isn't my tradition."

Does all this not fly in the face of Vatican II and the spirit of ecumenism?

At least the Russian Byzantine Catholics would have a solid connection with Russian spiritual culture (Russian Catholics have always enjoyed excellent relations with the ROC!).

Is this not a case of Rome talking out of both sides of its ostpolitik mouth?

I don't agree with that Russian group, but I'm not surprised that they react as they do toward the Latin Church that seems to have learned very little in terms of its historic relationship to Russian Orthodoxy.

Alex

Dear Father Anthony,
You write that "Bishop Basil was the one that introduced the calendar change". To what Bishop Basil do you refer? If you have in mind Bishop Basil of Pittsburgh, things did not begin to get really ugly on the calendar issue in his diocese until after he was out of the picture - probably because he had gone through serious difficulties over the celibacy issue and did not need another round. If you mean Bishop Basil of Stamford, his diocese still includes some substantial parishes using the Julian Calendar.
Some horrible and immoral methods have been used in efforts to impose the Gregorian Calendar by force - they won't bear mentioning, let alone repeating.

fraternally in Christ,

Incognitus

The OCA also forced the Gregorian Calender( except for the Paschal Cycle) on it's flock. At least the Ukrainian Catholic Church did make provisions for those people who wanted the Old Calender.I don't know for sure about Canada, but I believe all Ukrainan Catholic in the UK are still Julian Calender.

Fr. Al, if memory serves, Bp. Tikhon in the OCA West permits parishes to go one way or the other with regard to new or old calendar, but they have to do it as an entire congregation. But he also makes no provision for relaxing fasts preceding Christmas, however, which makes Thanksgiving something of a difficulty in the U.S. Not that he has stopped his flock from celebrating Thanksgiving, mind you.

Yes, I was mentioning Bishop Basil of Pittsburgh. unfortunately, I mentioned that the one history I was referring to was not very complimentary to him. It also stated that the calendar change was in effect by 1950(?).

I have to agree, the period between the late 1920s - 1950s was not a period of peace for the Eastern Catholic Churches in America. I also agree, that many of the upheavals do not need to brought up again, for they are not the shining moments for anyone Christian. I have to thank you for pointing out my error.

Wishing you peace at this season.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

Fr. Al, your blessing Father.

I believe there are exceptions as noted with Bishop Tikhon. Also, the parishes we visited in Alaska which were OCA, I seem to recall were all on the Old Calendar. I have heard many stories of the poor way in which the change was implemented however. My own church is on the New Calendar, but frankly I would personally much prefer the Julian.

Andrew

Father Al,

I have to agree with Rilian, not all of the dioceses of the OCA have become 100% new calendar. I know for a fact that some parishes in the Washington & New York diocese still follow the old calendar. I believe the conversion was left to each hierarch in how it was implimented and if any parishes were allowed to remain on the old calendar.

Wishing you a blessed fast and Nativity.

In IC XC,
Father Anthony+

The last parish to retain the Julian Calendar in what is now the Pittsburgh Metropolia was Saint John Chrysostom in the Greenfield section of Pittsburgh - Bishop Nicholas Elko successfully forced them to accept the Gregorian Calendar, with the aid of litigation that went all the way to the Supreme Court. There were some other parishes that retained the Julian Calendar well into the nineteen-sixties.

There are still parishes in the Philadelphia Metropolia, the Stamford Eparchy, the Eparchy in Parma and the Chicago Eparchy which retain the Julian Calendar.

Incognitus

This is a serious question from me--what is more important, celebrating Nativity and/or Pascha with the larger Catholic Church or retaining our own tradition and traditional calendar? Would it be another nail in the coffin of the Greek (Byzantine) Catholic Church in America to, AT THE VERY LEAST, return to the traditional Paschalia? Would you think that there would an exodus if we did?

John

My experience over many years is that parishes which use the traditional Paschalia have no difficulty filling the Church on Pascha.

Incognitus

Locally here the Ukrainian Orthodox and the American Carpatho-Russians locally (not church wide per a discussion a while back) use the Julian calender. The OCA uses the new calender with eastern lenten/pascha.

Why couldn't we return to the traditional Paschalia?

Pyrohy, to my knowledge the only church that the western paschalia is the Orthodox Church of Finland. I spoke with someone once and it seemed to have something to do with an arrangement with the government there. MP churches in Finland still use the Julian for everything.

Otherwise, all Orthodox Churches use the eastern paschalion and calculate their moveable feasts off it AFAIK. It is not uncommon that within one church there are mixed uses of the Julian and Revised Julian (i.e. New, i.e. Gregorian for all intensive purposes) for fixed feasts.

Andrew

[also, in relation to the thread. AsiaNews says the protest has been cancelled]