www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News Orthodox "proselytizing" in Catholic Countries?

Just a quick question: doesn't the above statement work both ways? I mean, Rome claims the same things that Orthodoxy claims, for the most part. Couldn't Rome choose to insist that it was the Orthodox who aren't in communion, and thus not apostolic? Isn't it to the Pope's credit that he is "as good" to the Orthodox in recognising their apostolicity as many Orthodox hierarchs are to him and to his Church in recognising Roman apostolicity?

Dear Rob Osborn,

Bob Sweiss? Rum Orthodox is Bob Sweiss? Isn't "Orthoman" Bob Sweiss?

I thought Rum was a teenager with issues, rather than an adult with issue . . .

I also didn't think Bob was that nasty. Isn't he Antiochian Orthodox? They're not that nasty to Rome, at least not the numerous ones I've had the privilege of knowing and still know.

So Rum is the "Sweiss-Guy" eh? You'd think I never worked with politicians . . .

Alex

That is your version of Christian charity?

According to Byzantine Christianity, charity is all about long suffering, patience, kindness, turning the other cheek, and loving those who despitefully use you.

Now that is the true Byzantine tradition, passed on from generation to generation.

Nowhere does Jesus, the Holy Mother of God, and our Holy Saints teach that others must be worthy of love and forgiveness; in God's economia, they just are---no questions asked!

I don't believe you enjoy baiting and mocking "a lunatic" especially since you already realize that you know nothing of his personal history, or the history of his family, or his people.

Please turn the other cheek--like Jesus.

Ephraim

Hi Alex,
I see nothing wrong with the word "uniatism". I am tired of the old cliche that it is a racist word. It is what it is.

Thanks for being concerned about the reverence due to my parents. I was being facetious in regards to parental brainwashing. Of course, I reverence them. I have told them that they were wrong for accepting Catholicism and should have remained faithful to Orthodoxy. All they do is smile and tell me it's one Church. These are my relativ-ists. LOL

The rest of what you said is very good. I have read and accept.

I apologize for the unfortunate tone of Rum Orthodox's comments here.

I thank God that his words do not resemble the words and action of my Patriarch, Ignatius of Antioch.

I also thank God that Pope John Paul II has been so courageously attempting to reach out to our Orthodox hierarchs. I must admit that on the whole the Bishop of Rome has seemed much more Christ like in the past few years than some of our patriarchs.

Rum, what do we gain by refusing to forgive?

I don't care how beautiful our liturgy is. If we don't forgive, then God's not going to listen to our prayers. This frightens and humbles me. Lord Jesus Christ, have mercy on us.

David

And Alex, I think I might just ask St. David to say a few prayers for you as well. Maybe we can't commemorate his feast in the liturgy (yet) but nobody's told me I can't ask western saints to pray for me and others jsut because we are tragically and sinfully out of communion with them.

St. David pray for us!

Dear Rum,

I didn't know you are Bob Sweiss!

That puts a whole different light on things!

I know you to be a man of God who is intimately close to Him and the Most Holy Theotokos.

Forgive me. You have a right to your views and to how you express them.

And Ephraim is right as well. Anyone who knows Bob Sweiss knows him to be a man of the Spirit.

Alex

And now, of course, since we do not judge, we can forgive Rum.

Christianity is soul-refreshing.

Ephraim

Dear David,

You are really quite wonderful, you know!

The Antiochian Orthodox Church should get the "Gold Medal" for its charity and outreach to many communities.

I know the Ukrainian Orthodox owe much to your Holy Patriarchate for their survival and later success on this continent.

As someone who is fascinated by the Western Rites (there is some good in being Latinized after all!), your Patriarchate is really ingenious in how it has allowed both RC's and Anglicans to "come over" and yet feel at home in their liturgical patrimonies.

Over all, I think we can be too hard on Rum Orthodox, there are issues involved and I know I've been rather crude at times when it came to the Russian Patriarchate (you know, as Brendan says, the "patriarchate everyone loves to hate" ).

I'll give you that I much prefer to read Bob's spiritual treatises and posts as they are matched by none in terms of their inspirational value.

I hope that Bob will bless all of us here with more of his spiritual contributions that reflect his deep Christian heart and soul. (I really do love the fellow, he is wonderful).

I always observe the feast of St David of Wales, wear his leek and I have a staff I bought in the area he evangelized.

Believe it or not, I once gave a lecture for an Orthodox group and, to show their appreciation (the wonderful people ) they gave me a hand-written icon of St David of Wales! That was so cool . . .er, wonderful (I've been hanging around Mor Ephrem and other youngsters here, you see).

I think we can forgive Rum, he needed to say what he said, and we can move on from here.

Again, we all look forward to Rum's sharing his spiritual posts that do truly reflect the deeply religious character of this great man's soul.

(And no, he didn't have to pay me to say that).

Alex

Reading this from Orthodox Catholic makes me a bit squeamish about my last post. I feel inclined to defer to Alex's judgment. Perhaps I was out of line.

I do apologize for being judgmental, Rum.

...But I still don't understand how it is that leaders of our Church can refuse forgiveness to a man who asks for it.

Tell me, is this just my own American pluralistic sensibilities clouding my judgment here? Is it really okay, in light of Christ's redemtion of the world, to withold forgiveness to anyone who asks for it. Am I just being naive?

DL

Dear David,

If you are an American, you are definitely being naive - kidding, kidding .

I am a monarchist, you see, but we love you Americans and share your grief and struggles you currently face, although you are more than capable of doing a good job of that by yourselves!

Remember that disagreement our two countries had in 1812?

It's a good thing your people aren't asking for a re-match today!

Happy Valentine's Day!

(I'm just hanging around here waiting for my wife to come home - I refuse to start the festivities without her . . .).

Alex

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: Orthodox Catholic ]

The issue here David is not a matter of forgiveness. If it were forgiveness I have to accept. There should be more forgiveness, I hope, underway for the establishment of uniatism in the Middle East, my part of the world. What saddens the soul is when one has relatives in different Churches that do not accept the Unity of the Orthodox Faith. There have been no papal pronouncements in this regard.

Alex,
I cannot tell by your post if you are trying to patronize or compliment me. I'll take them both. One without the other as in my case doesn't work. You certainly have a way with words Professor.

The fool or lunatic
Bob Sweiss

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ephraim Reynolds:
[QB]

That is your version of Christian charity?

Ephraim,

You have GOT to be kidding me. Just let Robert Sweiss write whatever he wants about the Catholic Church without defending it against what he has written?

Amazing!

Rob

No, I am not kidding you.

But you were not "defending" the Catholic Church---you attacked him, personally. There is a difference, you know.

Peace

Ephraim