www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy Chaldean Catholic liturgy

A young woman from Iraq has been attending our Byzantine parish for a while. She doesn't have a car, and we are the closest Catholic Church. We do have a Chaldean Church in town, so I've offered to drive her there this Sunday. I'm looking forward to it, but I don't really know what to expect. Can anyone provide me with some good links, either of the text(in English), a thorough description, or a video?

Here is the parish we'll be attending
Our Lady of Perpetual Help [ourladyofperpetualhelpchurch.com]

The Liturgy is basically a Roman Liturgy. We had quite an experience with Chaldean bishop Ibrahimi in 2007 when he spoke at a conference we held on the suffering Church in Iraq and we had quite a learning curve. Since he was a visiting bishop we asked him to confect the elements. We thought the liturgy was an Eastern liturgy. It was not and the good bishop was by his admission almost completely lost in the liturgy. I believe the problem is that the Assyrian Orthodox follow St. John Chrysostom but the Chaldean Church basically dates back to St. Francis Xavier and hence they use a Roman liturgy. I'm sure someone can clarify my understanding but this is what I understand.

I think you may be confused about this. The Assyrian Church of the East celebrates the Anaphora of Addai and Mari, not the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom. Also, St Francis Xavier has nothing whatsoever to do with the Chaldean Church in the Middle East. Furthermore, I believe Bishop Sarhad Yawsip Jammo of the Chaldean Eparchy of St Peter the Apostle of San Diego is known for his zeal for an authentic Eastern liturgy.

I stand corrected. If St. Francis Xavier had nothing to do with the Chaldean Church do you have information on what he did in Assyria?

Yes I believe you are correct about Mar Sarhad here in San Diego. There is a very good young priest here named Fr. Andy and I believe he translated the authentic Chaldean Liturgy into English. They have a 4pm English Liturgy at their cathedral, which is five mins from my house. I will go there and give a report.

But from what I understand many Chaldean parishes still are very Latinized and their liturgy is almost the same (as is the Maronite) as the Roman but I think things are changing. I think it is an organic process. We Byzantine Churches were the first wave to break the shackles of Latinization and the Oriental Catholics, who are much smaller than our churches, are now starting to break free as well.

Textually the Liturgy may be improving but it still has a long way to go otherwise. The newly built church near Sacramento is beautiful but it is full of life-size statues and Stations of the Cross.

Let's not lose sight of the question asked up front ...

Elizabeth,

See here [kaldu.org] for an English language version.

Many years,

Neil

Elizabeth,

Thought I had a link for a video, but can't find it. Here are some photos from the celebration of the Assumption this past week.

St Matthew Chaldean Church, Cere CA [kaldaya.net]

Many years,

Neil

Thank you, Neil. Both of those links were very helpful. I'll let you all know my impressions tomorrow. I'm really looking forward to it.

Elizabeth

Doesn't look very "eastern" from the construction photos. Looks very Roman Catholic.

I always wonder why some Eastern Catholics insist on adapting Latin Catholic practices, architecture, and customs. Are they that embarrassed of their own traditions?. Seems like it allot to me!. Statues are not used by the Syrian Orthodox Church, so why Chaldean Catholic Church. Boggles my mind!.

The Syrian Orthodox Church is the counterpart to the Syriac Catholic Church. The Chaldeans are counterpart to the Assyrians and the Ancient Church of the East.

The Chaldeans and Assyrians had virtually no history of iconography or statuary; their temples would, historically, be adorned only with a cross. See here [orthocath.files.wordpress.com]

Many years,

Neil

Keep in mind (and these remarks are not directed solely at bkovacs) - and temper your criticisms accordingly - that many of the Oriental Churches have suffered latinization, close up and personal - through being under the immediate, day-to-day, supervisory control of Latin missioners and bishops - for centuries.

We principally dealt with it here - in the New World - to which our forefathers and mothers came barely 125 years ago. The Oriental Churches lived it, in their homelands, for centuries.

And they are, minimally, a half to three-quarters of a century behind us in arriving here - and, given the circumstances from which they've come (and in which they still have family), worrying about whether installation of a statue will offend enlightened Eastern Catholics and Orthodox might not yet be high on their priority list.

Many years,

Neil

We Russian Orthodox have statues in the Cathedral of Christ the Saviour in Moscow

Is that photo of an Assyrian or Chaldean church? Thank you.

In Christ,
Anthony