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"Orthodox paschalion and Gregorian dates for fixed-date feasts, just like the OCA"

Actually, in the OCA the Bishop can permit parishes to follow the Old Calendar for fixed feasts, and a few of the local parishes here in DC do (including the Cathedral, where both calendars are followed, one by the English-language community and one by the Russian community).

Brendan

Actually, in the OCA the Bishop can permit parishes to follow the Old Calendar for fixed feasts, and a few of the local parishes here in DC do (including the Cathedral, where both calendars are followed, one by the English-language community and one by the Russian community).

Knew that about the OCA, specifically Alaska (the Orthodox native peoples � Aleuts (actually Russian-Aleut creoles with Russian last names) and Tlingits � are traditional) and a few churches in the lower 48 states that refused the change, so a compromise was worked out. (Possibly after a couple of church defections to ROCOR.) Didn�t know that about St Nicholas in DC. I was there recently for the tail end of Vespers. Most impressive.

Serge
who is on the Julian calendar but not vociferous about it � just a cultural authenticity nut

<a href="http://oldworldrus.com">Old World Rus�</a>

"Are there any BC Churches in America which are faithful to our patrimony regarding pews? If not, are there are Eastern Catholic or Orthodox Churches in America that are? I've never worshiped in that kind of setting. I would surely like to.
Dan Lauffer"

Dear Dan,

Some people would say if you have never done it, then its not part of your patrimony!

It still might be an interesting new experience, however.

Olga Nimchek

>>>Some people would say if you have never done it, then its not part of your patrimony!<<<

A child taken from his family and raised by strangers grows up knowing little of his true family's heritage. One day (like in a Dickens novel), he learns that he has come into his inheritance, and that treasures beyond his experience are now his. Those treasures are still his patrimony, even if he doesn't yet know what they are, or how to use them.

>>>Some people would say if you have never done it, then its not part of your patrimony!<<<

Mebbe so, mebbe not. When I was received into the Church, our Liturgy was a lot less Latinized than in some quarters, but it still bore the marks. Little by little, things have been restored. With each "change," (not really a change, but the parish had never "done it that way before") the Liturgy made more sense as a whole. I can remember several "Oh THAT'S the way it's supposed to be!" epiphanies - none so powerful as the first time we were privileged to have a Deacon with us. **sigh**

Seems like there's a reason for most everything prescribed in our liturgical tradition. We sophisticated modern folk tend to think we know best, and BOY do we value our precious comfort, but time and again, those primitive unwashed Fathers with their old fashioned ascetical notions.... well, they're in heaven, and we think we're doing well to be sitting in air-conditioned comfort on padded pews, glancing at our watches until the 40 minute Liturgy is over & we can go get a cup of coffee.

We've tried pews. Can anyone honestly say they've enhanced worship?

In Christ,

Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Can a poor westerner chime in here?

I am with you. Get rid of the pews. The code of cannon law states that unless space does not allow, one should lie prostrate during parts of the Mass. It makes sense to me that if you have pews, you can not lie prostrate during the sections that you are supposed to this.

Although I am with you, I am a firm beleiver in waste not want not. The trees did not desire to become pews this was forced upon them. We should find a valid use for these vile objects.

On the issue of carpet, get rid of it. If you go into the church of the Holy Sepulchar or you go into St. Peter's Basilica, you will notice that they have marble floors. Again canon law comes into play when it says that the priest should not use microphones since they take away from the glorious appearance of the church.

Personally, I'm getting myself a big ol' mother of a Barcolounger and setting it up halfway between the altar and the exit to the men's room.

Kurt

Sound systems -
Carpet DOES ruin acoustics, but even some hard-floored, un-pewed spaces are "acoustically impaired." Acoustics is part black art, and part science. I don't mind a GOOD, unobtrusive sound system designed for a place that needs it. Part of the glory of the Liturgy is having it be audible. Sometimes it needs a boost. (This does NOT mean I am fond of the $8 million Cathedral with the $20 sound system they got at Bob's World O' Big Sound. I've sung there... That's plain stupid.)

Opinions vary on what constitutes a glorious worship space, and what's appropriate inside. I've seen photos of some VERY Orthodox churches in the Mideast. I dunno about their sound system or lack thereof, but some of them had the most spectacularly tacky electric wiring and lights strung all over the place. I don't think that would fly in Brampton, Ontario, but the folks over there seem to like it.

Cheers,

Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
shaaron@cmhc.com

Sorry, but there is nothing in Canon Law about being 'prostrate' during the Divine Liturgy. Canons 698 through 717 deal with Divine Eucharist and there is nothing there mandating such a thing.

Our Byzantine tradition is to make the Temple a fore-image of heaven, and so we do our best to make it beautiful. Marble floors are nice (but cold), and very expensive, even in Italy where they've got it coming out the ears.. Most of our parishes can't afford to pay a decent salary to the priest and the ordinary bills too. Marble? I don't think so.

Polished wood floors are wonderful; but we put carpets on them in the interest of beautification. Perhaps not the cheap wall-to-wall stuff (although some people like them and consider them 'classy'), but decent "Oriental" rugs can be gotten from time to time (on sale).

Sorry, Johanam, but our Byzantine sensibilities lead in certain directions that are perhaps unique to us. What they do at St. Peter's or in Jerusalem is nice; but we have our own ways too.

SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
SLAVA NA VIKI BOHU!

I must admit that I am against cheap sound systems myself. My parish was purchased second hand from a Protestant denomination that had out-grown it. When it was re-modeled, they left the sound system as it was.

This was soon removed because we got tired of the bleed-over from the local holy roller radio station before and during Divine Liturgy.

It's very upsetting to some to be sitting in a quiet church waiting for the priest to arrive for Divine Liturgy and to hear a loud voice yell AMEN! HALLELUJAH! and then a choir break into Gospel music.

I seem to remember something in the Eastern cannons against priests using leather shoes during Divine Liturgy. I think it had to do with Levitical law about not bringing dead animals into the Holy of Holies. Will we be following this also when we remove the pews???

Just curious.....

the least servant of the servants of God

mark

Mark,

Shocking! Holy roller stuff! At MY parish (stick nose in air with presumptuous sniff) we'd never DREAM of such a thing! Our PA system used to pick up police calls.

I never could figure out the sound system at the local G.O. Cathedral. (I've sung some weddings there.) The temple is absolutely magnificent. Marble everywhere, stunning mosaics, flooded with natural light. The sound system is antique, and a cheap antique at that. Unless babied significantly, it had a tendency to make you sound exactly as if you were singing into the bowl of a toilet. Fortunately, the cantor's mike is on a goose-neck, and can be set aside. Then you can leave "technology" behind, and fill the place with sound simply by directing your voice toward the Pantocrator way up in the glorious mosaic dome.

I think one of the best illustrations of the potential "gotchas" in acoustics happened at the Uniontown pilgrimage last year. Brand-new sound system at the Pontifical Altar, which is outdoors, at the bottom of a sort of bowl-shaped hillside. The ground is a rather complex shape. Depending upon where you sat, you could hear perfectly - or not at all. Bishop Basil (the homilist at one Liturgy) joked about it being a sign from God that his homily might not be worth listening to. One of the "zones of silence" was quite close in. (Much like the famous battle in the Civil War, where there was a regiment very close to a raging battle, but they never showed up to help out because they were in a "zone of silence" and never heard a single gunshot.)

I guess they don't include "acoustics" in the curriculum at Seminary.

Oh well.


Cheers,


Sharon


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Yes, marble is expensive, but as the greeks here say, "you weep only once". Carpet will need to be renewed each decade (or more often?) to look well. Marble lasts a millenium (or two). That is an attitude that speaks of eternity, a sign of the eternal kingdom.

I'd be interested in that canon about shoes. Does it extend to the leather belt of the monastic? I remove my belt at vesting, but would be delighted to have a 'reason' when people ask me why I do that.

Elias

In my old parish, which I had to attend or do without the sacraments, we had a wonderful sound system. Stereos and microphones hanging from the ceiling. And a big progector screen that would come down in front of the crucifix and tabernacle, to keep people from having the "inconvenience" of fumbling with hymnals.

The priest, a staunch traditionalist, was against this entiraly but lacked the energy to go up against the parish council. Fortunately, he did draw the line when the council wanted him to use chocolate cake in the eucharist. Apparently, they thought it would help improve attendance at Mass.

The priest did, however, celebrate private masses in the small chapel of the church that was supposed to have been locked for over twenty years. When he said these Masses, he said them in the old tridentine format with all the richness of the traditions of the Holy Catholic Faith. Our only instrument in these Masses was the human voice, but at least we had the beuty of our Catholic faith. Attendece at these Masses was always growing. Also this Chapel had no pews due to the fact that they had been sold some timne earlier to help pay for the new sound system.

Chocolate cake??!!!??

Yuck. Vanilla hosts only for me, please.

;-)

Sounds systems can really wreak havoc when folks aren't accustomed to it.

In my early years as a young seminarian, I was part of a 'schola' that sang at the installation of a bishop in a large New England city. New England, being the hot-bed of ethnic Catholicism, had lots of bishops from all over the place, including a few retired ones who were quite elderly.

During one part of the liturgy, one of the elder bishops had to make use of the facilities and did not realize that his lavellier microphone was still in the "on" position.

In the silence after communion, one heard over the speakers, the splashing of water. Followed by a distinct "FLUSH!". Immediately, and before the entire congregation lapsed into subdued chuckles, the organist -- a buddy of mine -- immediately cranked up the new Hook&Hastings pipe organ to cover the 'follow up'.

At one seminary, their 'electronic pipe organ' (a contradiction in terms) used to pick up taxi calls. Interesting. I think I'll take the Gospel Music instead.

Blessings!