www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Joining the Catholic Church

Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum so a little by way of introduction is in order I think. I was raised Baptist, fell away from any sort of Christian faith, was a Latin Rite Roman Catholic Catechumen, had a few theological problems that the priest was unwilling to answer because, "You should know by now." So I left and joined the Greek Orthodox Church which I have been in for a little over three years now. During my time as an Orthodox Christian I have loved the Liturgy, praxis, icons, etc. but I've also begun to realize that the Pope of Rome must be more than just a figured-head and by virtue of Petrine Primacy, must be the head of the Church (of course Christ is the Head of the Church but I hope you understand what I mean). That may be a very Latin view of the papacy, I don't know, so that's why I am here. I want to know how the Eastern Catholics view the papacy, their relationship to Rome, Papal Infallibility, etc. I've read a lot on this forum but I didn't see anything "official" as it were. The reason this is important to me is that if I join the Catholic Church, I would be an Eastern Catholic (per canon law) and I could change rites if I wanted (and if it were allowed) I understand that but I don't know if I would want too or not. Of course I could just go talk to an Eastern Catholic Priest, the problem with that is the nearest EC Church is 4 hours way. I've spoken with the priest at the Church I would attend (who is a former Melkite) and he didn't really touch on it too much as he was raised in the Latin rite though officially he was Melkite. So if you kind folks could help me out at all, I'd be really appreciative. Oh..by the way...the reason for my name being "Gregory0412" is my Baptismal name was Gregory (Gregorios) after Pope St. Gregory the Great and the 0412 is for March 12th, his feast day :)

Gregory,

Welcome to the forum. Umm, March 12 would be 0312 in most calendars - but, we're very tolerant of all calendars here, so feel free to stick with that one

To pick up on something you said, that you've seen nothing 'official' here as to "how Eastern Catholics view the papacy, their relationship to Rome, Papal Infallibility, etc" ....

It's difficult to imagine that you will see anything that will be universally endorsed here as 'official'. We're a very diverse community. Our membership represents faithful of many - very many - of the Eastern and Oriental Catholic Churches and members of several of the Eastern Orthodox Churches. As well, we have both Latin Catholic and Protestant members who have an abiding interest in and love for the East.

And, while Americans and Canadians predominate, we have strong representation from other countries around the globe. Like any community that is this diverse, opinions vary on any such questions as you raise - spanning a continuum that ranges from those who are extremely supportive of a strong papal role to those who see the ideal papal role as part and parcel of a collegial hierarchical structure - and everything in between.

Because we're human, and as such prefer to each consider what we believe to be 'right', you're unquestionably going to encounter significantly different interpretations of what are 'official' views. None of us, last I checked, is in a position to speak 'officially' for any of our Churches (except for occasional pronouncements by the High Chief Patriarch of Outer Slobbovia ).

I say this not to discourage you, but merely to forewarn you that we are who we are, Eastern Christians of many stripes. We're no different in that regard than any random group of folk whom one might poll on any question, except that, hopefully, you'll find us charitable and civil in our disagreements with one another, though our opinions may differ and be strongly held.

With that as an introduction to the environment, I'll leave the floor to the many who will, undoubtedly, wish to weigh in on your queries with their personal, 'official', opinions.

Many years,

Neil

Yes indeed; welcome to the forum.

If I were contemplating joining the Orthodox Church, one of the things I ask myself is: what advantage would accrue to me? What good would it do me?

You may be interested by http://orthodoxwiki.org/Dmitri_(Royster)_of_Dallas

I am one who believes that there is little to point to the Eastern Catholic Churches unless they are absolutely faithful to their own traditions - theological and spiritual - yet they live this out in communion with Rome.

The problem with any sort of 'official' line on Rome is that neither Rome nor many Eastern Catholics will be all that consistent in the signals they put out.

Rome has made it clear that Easterns are to eschew traditions which are not properly theirs, yet many among the us will argue in favour of theological terminology that is inherently Western in nature.

I chose an Eastern Catholic Church over Orthodox precisely because of the benefit of communion with Rome. The witness of Irenaeus was enough to have convinced me of its importance. But I do not think that communion with Rome needs to mean theological subordination. Having said that, issues of visible, corporate union aside, I am not convinced that Orthodox are 'out of communion', when they clearly adhere to the historic, apostolic Faith.

Shlomo (Peace to you in Syriac-Aramaic) Gregorios,

Since you are in West Virginia, you may be close to a Maronite Church. In the Western part of West Virginia many Lebanese-American live (the Congressman is of Lebanese descent). As my good friend Neil stated there is a diverse group of Easterners and those who love the East.

I myself am Maronite (one of the Oriental Catholic Churches). If you are looking at becoming Eastern Catholic. Please look at the different Churches. Each is a beautiful facet of the gem called the Catholic Church.

Fush BaShlomo (Stay in Peace),
Yuhannon

Hm, well I got that date wrong lol Apparently I moved my patrons feast day..oh well lol I'm struggling with it quite frankly because I'm not sure if I'm doing the right thing or if God is leading me or it's just my dissatisfaction with the Orthodox Church and how seemingly divided it is, it's a real struggle for me.

Gregory,

To what I said yesterday and what my brothers have added, I suspect that members will speak with you as to why they made whatever choices they have made - whether that have been to remain in the Catholic or Orthodox Church, to translate from one to the other, or to transfer between Churches in the same (Catholic or Orthodox) Communion. What no one will do - because it is unacceptable here - is prosletyize you or denigrate whatever decision you make.

We have a long history here of tolerance and prayerful support for all who find themselves in these circumstances. It is neither a matter of indifferentism nor a lack of deep-rooted faith and love for our respective faiths. Rather, it represents an acknowledgement that each of us must find the spiritual home which we consider will bring us closest to God and an abiding respect for the decisions of our brothers and sisters in making such decisions for themselves.

There are many among us who have traveled the routes that I mentioned and, in every instance, our prayers have been for them to be at peace and spiritually prosper in their decision. None are less our brother or sister nor less welcome here. It's probably among the most distinguishing characteristics of this forum and one which sometimes causes it to be cavalierly dismissed by those who see us as less committed to our respective faiths. I'm rather more inclined to the idea that it marks us as ever prayerful for the day (though probably not in my lifetime) when the Holy Spirit has had enough and opens our minds and hearts to embrace the unity that, assuredly, would be more pleasing to God than the present state of division.

Many years,

Neil

Gregory,

Have you attended Divine Liturgy at any Eastern Catholic Church? If you are thinking it is going to be just like the Greek Orthodox Church but with a photo of the Pope in the vestibule, you might be surprised.

That said, others have stressed that it is best if you move towards something because your heart draws you there, rather than move away from something because your head is not satisfied.

I believe one of the methods of discernment by St. Ignatius is to ask yourself three questions: What would I want to know I did when I look back on my life from my deathbed? What would I advise someone who I love and who was in the exact same situation to do? At the last judgement, what would I want to know what my decision was?

And finally, trust that wherever you are, God is there. You don't have to be in the exact perfect right official and fabulous church to worship God in spirit and truth. It helps but I am only able to attend a Divine Liturgy a few times a year although I am canonically Eastern Catholic and that just makes it all the more special.

Prayers for you, Gregory of the New Feast.

It's the procrastinators' calendar. I'll post a list of parishes using it later.