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Perhaps, maybe, possibly -- instead of Americans making a decision for a monastery across that BIG ocean, maybe out of respect for the former monastics, and the ones who currently live there, let's pray for the re-establishment of traditional monastic life in OUR OWN COUNTRY in all 21 Eastern Catholic Churches.

Let us pray for vocations to the priesthood and to the monastic life (monks and nuns). Let us encourage young people and the 20'ers and the 30'ers, etc., to pray about this, to think about this, and to investigate IF OUR LORD WANTS THEM TO DO THIS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!

Miracles do happen!!! eek :p shocked

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...the reason for this (if I may add another thought), is that our spiritual strength, our love for God, our tenacity in the faith, our heartfelt devotion is of the Holy Spirit. It is his gift in our Church.

The sad division is the work of the evil one, it is the fruit of his meddling in Christ's vineyard.

We all know who is stronger, who will endure, and to whom belongs the victory!

When our hearts are pure, and our whole lives are given over to the work of the Holy Spirit, the meddler will have no say, and his work will be finally nullified. His victories will fail, and Christ only will rule.

The days of the division are numbered. Christ's kingdom is everlasting.

Elias

[ 08-27-2002: Message edited by: Hieromonk Elias ]

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Originally posted by amonasticbeginner:
Perhaps, maybe, possibly -- instead of Americans making a decision for a monastery across that BIG ocean, maybe out of respect for the former monastics, and the ones who currently live there, let's pray for the re-establishment of traditional monastic life in OUR OWN COUNTRY in all 21 Eastern Catholic Churches.

Let us pray for vocations to the priesthood and to the monastic life (monks and nuns). Let us encourage young people and the 20'ers and the 30'ers, etc., to pray about this, to think about this, and to investigate IF OUR LORD WANTS THEM TO DO THIS IN OUR OWN COUNTRY!!!!

Miracles do happen!!! eek :p shocked


An excellent idea. Of course, if we also pray for the re-establishment of full communion between our Churches then these discussions would be moot! biggrin

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Dear monastic beginner,

A wonderful thought, and a worthy suggestion. Let us work and pray for this intention.

Elias

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

Father Joe, bless me a sinner.

Father,

Thank you for your account of St. Nicholas Monastery. I do agree with griego catholico that the edifice ought to be returned to the eparchy and the monks ought to return. I also believe that the icon, which was confiscated by the Patriarch of Moscow, also ought to be returned to the Mukachevo Eparchy.

Pope Pius XI (1922-1939)was aware of the devotion of Russians, Ukrainians and Rusyns to their miraculous icons. He gave several copies of Our Lady of Perpetual Help. I believe he gave a copy to Bishop Basil of Pittsburgh (1924-1948) in 1929. He knew that the poor Rusyns of the Pittsburgh Exarchate could no longer attend pilgrimages to Mariapovch, Klokochovo, or Krasny Brod. I suspect that he was also trying to cushion the blow of "Cum Data Fuerit." I think that he also gave another copy to Bishop Constantine of Philadelphia knowing that the poor Ukrainians could not make the trip to venerate the Virgin of Zarvanytsya. He also sent copies of icons (Perpetual Help and Zhyrovytsi) to the Russian, Belarusian and Ukrainian parishes in Eastern Poland under the care St. Nikolaj (Bishop Nicholas Charnetsky, 1931-1959.)

The Rusyns of Mukachevo and Priashev (sp?) held the "Mati Bozha Mukachevska" in great esteem. Pope Pius XI gave the icon to Bishop Peter in 1926. His Holiness knew that the Hungarian authorities had prohibited the traditional pilgrimages from the Presov and Mukachevo eparchies to the icon of the Virgin of Mariapovch at St. Michael's Monastery. This deep veneration of the Virgin of Mariapovch was more than 200 years old.

The new icon was a 15th century Greek icon. By this gift he showed his love for the Rusyn people and his concern regarding the Orthodox schism in Czechoslvakia. The monks of St. Nicholas Monastery, Hill of the Monks, enshrined it there and the Holy See offered generous indulgences on feasts to those came to venerate Our Lady of Mukachevo. Soon there were large yearly pilgrimages on the Feast of the Dormition and the Nativity of the Theotokos. Even Bishop Paul of Presov came to venerate the Virgin of Mukachevo. St. Feodor (Theodore) Romza (1944-1947) also had a devotion to her. He publicly invoked her protection during the Soviet occupation: "Most Holy Bogoroditse of Mukachevo, save us!" I believe that even after the icon had been removed by the Russian Orthodox the Rusyns composed a hymn to her beseeching her protection.

There is a black and white copy of the icon on the cover of the Mukachevo episcopology by Fr. Athanasius Pekar. The icon appears over a illustration of St. Nicholas Monastery. This illustration, I think, conveys what Fr. Joe was trying to say about the importance of Cherncha Hora to the Rusyn people.

Most Holy Theotokos of Fatima, save us.
Most Holy Theotokos of Mukachevo, save us.
RusOrthCath martyrs and confessors, pray for us.

[ 08-27-2002: Message edited by: PaulOrthCathConfessor ]


Holy Russian Orthodox-Catholic martyrs and confessors, pray to God for us.
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Glory to God for all things!

Dear friends,

The booklet is entitled "The Bishops of the Eparchy of Mukachevo with Historical Outlines" (Pittsburgh 1979) One could probably find a copy at the local Ruthenian or even Ukrainian church kiosk.

Bishop Peter Gebej (1924-1931)formally installed the miraculous icon at St. Nicholas Monastery on June 27, 1926. Here is his prayer.

"Blessed Virgin Mary, as you graciously take up your residence among our people, warm their hearts with the fire of God's love. Confirm in holy faith and piety all those who have abandoned your Son and you. Protect us the priests, our Rusyn people, and our beloved eparchy with your omophorion. O heavenly queen, intercede for us in all our troubles."


Holy Russian Orthodox-Catholic martyrs and confessors, pray to God for us.
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Dear fellow Forum members,

Again, I would like to thank all who have posted on this thread-most especially to Father Joe for his wonderful post. It could not have been stated better.

Also, thank you Paul... for the info on where to see an image of the icon of Our Lady of Mukachevo.

griego catolico

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by OrthoMan:

The Vatican and RCC's in the west are full of Orthodox Catholic Icons they have no right to own. We can start with the Icon o 'Our Lady of Perpetual Help' stolen from a Church in Crete and go from there.

Dear OrthoMan,

I do not know if you are aware of the history of the icon of Our Lady of Perpetual Help following it being stolen from Crete. You may read about the history of the icon at: www.praiseofglory.com/redemptorist/olphhistory.htm [praiseofglory.com]

Our Lady appeared to a little girl in Rome asking that her icon of Perpetual Help be enshrined between the basilicas of St. Mary Major and St. John Lateran, presently the Redemptorist Mother Church of St. Alphonsus Ligouri. Certainly, the many miracles that continue to occur from this church are a sign of Our Lady's favor on this site.

Personally, I wouldn't want to go against the wishes of the Theotokos and send back the icon to Crete, when Our Lady Herself wants it in Rome.

I should also like to point out that the Holy Father has in his possession the original, miraculous icon of Our Lady of Kazan and is more than ready to go to Russia to personally hand it over to Patriarch Alexei II. The Russian Orthodox Church continues to prevent such an event from happening.

Should such an event take place, the Patriach in return should give back to the Holy Father the icon of Our Lady of Mukachavo.

Let us pray that this event will take place very soon.

God bless you,

griego catolico

[ 08-27-2002: Message edited by: griego catolico ]

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Originally posted by griego catolico:
Should such an event take place, the Patriach in return should give back to the Holy Father the icon of Our Lady of Mukachavo.

I like that idea!

It's like kids with baseball cards: "I'll give you one O.L. of Mukachevo for one O.L. of Kazan... and I'll throw the riza in for free!"

Maybe there should be a new TV Show called "Trading Icons"?

I'd also want spin-offs called "Trading Relics" and "Trading Altars" (where two priests swtich churches and properly clean/renovate the holy place).

biggrin

-Dave

[ 08-27-2002: Message edited by: Chtec ]

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Dear Orthoman,

No need to choke here, Friend!

As I said, no one is denying the things the West stole from OUR Churches, including the icon of the Black Madonna of Czestochowa.

St Theodore of Ostrih, who died as a Monk in the Pecherska Lavra, was in Czestochowa (15th century) when he saw the shrine of the Black Madonna.

He immediately went up to it and tried to take the icon down.

He was arrested by the Poles for "blasphemy."

During his trial, he said he was only trying to remove stolen property and take it back to its rightful owners - the Kyivan Orthodox Church.

By noting the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church has also taken things it shouldn't have (naughty, naughty smile ) from the Ukraianian, Georgian and other Churches, that is not to condemn it, but it is to condemn the sin.

Alex

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Dear Monastic Beginner,

Yes, perhaps we on this side of the ocean should keep our noses in our own business.

But I think we do have a responsibility to speak up here on behalf of those whose voices "over there" might not be enough to effect the justice that cries out to be served.

Alex

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Dear Bob:

Your question is a well-taken one and certainly deserves consideration. I will clarify my position stated above, to which your point concerns, particularly the following statement:

Chernecha Hora remains important and significant as the "heart" of the Ruthenian Christian Church, which is not rightfully part of the Russian Orthodox Church, but consists of the historical indigenous church of Carpathian Rus' which, like it or not, is a part of the Greek Catholic communion.

If one considers the progressive historical development of the church in Subcarpathain Rus', there is no doubt that the far greater part of the indigenous church of the Carpatho-Rusyns subsists within the Eparchy of Mukachevo and its subsequent "daughter churches" that have come into existence over the years.

Whether it is considered from its "pre-union" form or that which has continued since then, the fact remains that, not withstanding small movements towards union with the Russian Orthodox Church, the mainstay of the Carpatho-Rusyn Church, has remained part of the Eparchy of Mukachevo and its related churches.

Given that, where Orthodox movements have existed, they have adopted the authority and mostly the rite and traditions of the Russian patriarchate, and that, in so much as it represents the historical, liturgical, cultural and linguistic elements of Subcarpathian Rus', that the Church of Mukachevo is Greek Catholic. The Mukachevo Eparchy has maintained its historical congruity as the church which serves the Carpatho-Rusyn people according to their authentic traditions and also maintains the historical lineage of the Rusyn episcopacy. Even political and literary figures of the region have associated with the eparchy.

The only exception to this might be the Johnstown Diocese in the US, to the extent that they continue to use the Ruthenian recension and chant, but as laudable as this may be and, given the very understandable circumstances under which it came into being, it is still but a minority of the Carpatho-Rusyn people or their descendents, that belong to this jurisdiction.

Since we can make a very distinguishable historical lineage between the original Mukachevo Eparchy and the Rusyn Greek Catholic Church of today, I concluded that the indigenous descendents of the historical eparchy are encountered in what are still today, eparchies in union with Rome. I say this with no disrespect to those of our people who have chosen to become Orthodox, whether individually or as a group, but simply to point out that there is historical continuity between the local church of Subcarpathian Rus' and the Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo.

Fr. Joe

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Bless me a sinner, Father Joseph,

You really never cease to amaze me, Reverend Father!

Your point regarding the distinction between the Muscovite rite and the Greek Catholic traditions is quite excellent.

Much of what was understood by the term "Orthodoxy" in Ukraine and elsewhere had to do with what was the spiritual-cultural patrimony of Russia itself.

In yesteryear, to be "Orthodox" was to be "pro-Russian" and certainly the Austro-Hungarian authorities understood that term in this way!

As you know, at the close of the 19th century, Orthodox Saints and Miraculous Icons, long venerated by Greek Catholics, were forced to be dropped from the calendar by Vienna, as a reaction against "creeping Russification and Russian imperialism."

It was only with the independent Orthodox movement beginning in the twenties that Greek Catholics began to see their Orthodox confreres NOT in union with Moscow in a light that did not imply they were lackies of Russian colonialism.

Certainly, one could argue that the same applied to the Eastern Catholics vis-a-vis Vienna and Warsaw et alia.

But by that time, the Greek Catholic tradition with its openness to the new national liberation perspectives of western Europe and the general rebirth of national/cultural awareness had achieved its "right of citizenship" over and above Orthodoxy that was formerly the bastion of that same awareness.

Alex

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Originally posted by Administrator:

Is this really a question of there being only one authentic Church of the Carpathian Slavs? I would think that, since we both have identical roots, we are the same Church, even if currently separated.
The issues Bob raises are interesting. One cannot, however, pretend to equate the establishment of the Union of Uzhorod, which was done peacefully with the free will of those involved, with the confiscation of these same churches by the communists at gunpoint and through the execution of our bishops and priests.

On the first point, yes it seems to me that was the point Fr. Joe was making and generally made as can be evidenced by his reply (I thank him for his reply). I have no comment about this I only asked for clarification.

On the second point, I have not at any time or place and in any way ever equated either the Union of Uzhhorod (1646-) or the Union of Brest (1596) with the injustices perpetrated by the God-less communists in any part of the former "Eastern Bloc." If the esteemed Administrator is implying this he should re-read my post I was merely asking for clarification of Fr. Joe's comments.

For the record, I regard what happened in those places to the various Eastern Catholic churches (I think the Armenians suffered in Ukraine too), was unconscionable and can only be understood as the work of the Enemy perpetrated thru the hands of the God-less local governments. The role that the local Orthodox authorities played in any of this must be spoken of honestly, any and all cooperation with these works of the Enemy are a clear violation of conscience and basic human rights. It was a sin, a grave error and must be repented of.

I have never spoken or written anything contrary to what I have written above regarding this issue.

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Dear Bob,

Good for you! And you put it so articulately and well!

You're a "King" in more ways than one?

Alex

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