The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
everynameitryistak, DavidLopes, Anatoly99, PoboznyNeil, Hammerz75
6,188 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (everynameitryistak), 629 guests, and 144 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,536
Posts417,730
Members6,188
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#372730 12/07/11 12:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 450
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 450
Is there a "theology" of vestments? Are they considered sacramentals, or are they just based on ancient custom?

I've always wondered, because there is very little discussion of vestments in the Latin Church these days. If I remember reading correctly, I have read on this forum that there are prayers that go along with vesting. I wonder if the same is true for Latins.

Thanks for any info.

danman916 #372731 12/07/11 12:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
All the vestments of the Byzantine Church have a mysteriological meaning, which is revealed by the Vesting Prayers. Originally, clerics just wore variants on Byzantine court dress, but while that evolved, the vestments tended not to. Over time, they took on symbolic meaning. One relatively recent addition to the vestments is the bishop's crown, which is modeled after the imperial crown. Bishops took it over after the fall of Constantinople, as a sign of their secular role within the Rhum Milet.

danman916 #372734 12/07/11 01:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by danman916
I've always wondered, because there is very little discussion of vestments in the Latin Church these days. If I remember reading correctly, I have read on this forum that there are prayers that go along with vesting. I wonder if the same is true for Latins.

Latin Rite vesting prayers in translation reproduced below. This translation is from here [sanctamissa.org], where you can also find the Latin. Those from the Washing of the Hands to the end are printed in the '62 Missal/Pontifical Canon. Those for the Cassock and Fascia (and the one sometimes seen for the surplice) are, as far as I know, not official liturgical prayers.

Washing Hands: Give strength to my hands, Lord, to wipe away all stain, so that I may be able to serve Thee in purity of mind and body.

Amice: Lord, set the helmet of salvation on my head to fend off all the assaults of the devil. (The amice was originally in the form of a hood--and for certain religious orders still is--and is rested on the head briefly when it is put on.)

Alb: Make me white, O Lord, and cleanse my heart; that being made white in the Blood of the Lamb I may deserve an eternal reward.

Cincture: Gird me, O Lord, with the cincture of purity, and quench in my heart the fire of concupiscence, that the virtue of continence and chastity may abide in me.

Maniple: May I deserve, O Lord, to bear the maniple of weeping and sorrow in order that I may joyfully reap the reward of my labors.

Stole: Lord, restore the stole of immortality, which I lost through the collusion of our first parents, and, unworthy as I am to approach Thy sacred mysteries, may I yet gain eternal joy.

Dalmatic (Deacons and Bishops): Lord, endow me with the garment of salvation, the vestment of joy, and with the dalmatic of justice ever encompass me.

Chasuble: O Lord, who has said, ‘My yoke is sweet and My burden light,’ grant that I may so carry it as to merit Thy grace.

Last edited by JBenedict; 12/07/11 01:04 PM.
danman916 #372745 12/07/11 02:24 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Here are the parallel vesting prayers for a priest in the Byzantine rite:

When the priest vests, he first blesses each vestment with his right hand, kisses the cross on the vestment, and puts it on, saying the appropriate prayer. However, if a bishop is present in the church when it is time to vest, the priest will first take his vestments to the bishop and ask his blessing. In this case, the priest will not bless each vestment before putting it on, but rather cross himself, kiss the cross on the vestment and put it on.

Taking in his right hand the Sticharion and making three reverences toward the East to the Holy Doors, the Priest blesses it:

Blessed is our God + at all times, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen.

He then puts it on, saying:

My soul shall rejoice in the Lord, for He has clothed me with a robe of salvation arid covered me with a tunic of happiness; He has crowned me as a bridegroom arid adorned me with jewels as a bride.

At the Epitrachelion:

Blessed is God + who pours out grace upon his priests: as the chrism upon the head, which ran down unto the beard, the beard of Aaron, ran down even to the hem of his garment, at all times, now arid always and for ever and ever. Amen.

At the Zone:

Blessed is God + who girds me with strength arid makes my way blameless arid strengthens my feet like the hart's, at all times, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen.

At the Epimanikia (the right hand):

Your right hand, + Lord, is made glorious in might; your right hand, Lord, has crushed the enemies; and in the fullness of your glory, You have routed the adversary.

At the Epimanikia (left hand):

Your hands + have made me and fashioned me: give me understanding and I shall learn your commandments.

At the Epigonation (Palitsa) and Nabedrennik (if he has been awarded their use):

Gird Your sword at Your side, Mighty One, in Your splendor and beauty. String Your bow; go forth, reign for the sake of truth, meekness arid righteousness. Your right hand shall lead You wonderfully, at all times, now arid always and for ever and ever. Amen.[1]

At the Phelonion:

Your priests, Lord, shall clothe themselves with righteousness, and Your saints shall rejoice in joy, at all times, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen.

After that priest and deacon go to the basin and wash their hands, saying:

I will wash my hands in innocency; so will I compass Thine altar, O Lord, That I may make the voice of thanksgiving to be heard, and tell of all Thy wondrous works. LORD, I love the habitation of Thy house, and the place where Thy glory dwelleth. Gather not my soul with sinners, nor my life with men of blood; In whose hands is craftiness, and their right hand is full of bribes. But as for me, I will walk in mine integrity; redeem me, and be gracious unto me. My foot standeth in an even place; in the congregations will I bless the Lord.

danman916 #372766 12/07/11 07:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
Anybody know why the Latin priests wash their hands first, and ours wash their hands last?

JBenedict #372776 12/07/11 09:35 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 104
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,368
Likes: 104
JBenedict:

Christ is in our midst!!

I've seen the Latin vesting prayers before in the '62 Missal, but have not found them in the new one just inaugurated. Most priests I know don't own a cassock at this date; most only vest in alb, stole, and chasuble--sometimes cincture but not always. The bishop no longer wears a dalmatic under his chasuble. I don't know any who wash their hands either before or after vesting.

Bob

Last edited by theophan; 12/07/11 09:38 PM.
danman916 #372780 12/07/11 10:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 3
And they want us to eat stuff they've held in their hands?

danman916 #372781 12/07/11 10:37 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 27
Member
Member
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,529
Likes: 27
Notice also how the vestments correspond to the "whole armor of God" as cataloged in the sixth chapter of the letter of St. Paul to the church at Ephesus!

I use the prayers of both the East and the West in preparing for every liturgy.

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
"I've seen the Latin vesting prayers before in the '62 Missal, but have not found them in the new one just inaugurated."

I've not spent a lot of time with the new Missal yet. I expect they're not in there, but I'm not sure. Bishop Peter Elliot suggested their use in his book Ceremonies of the Modern Roman Rite and printed them in an appendix.

"Most priests I know don't own a cassock at this date;"

The situation is different here for the Archdiocese of New York. I think I've seen most priests I know here in a cassock (or religious habit). Cassocks never completely disappeared here and are more in evidence now than when I moved to NYC over 6 years ago. The younger a priest is, the more likely he is to wear a cassock.

"The bishop no longer wears a dalmatic under his chasuble."

By 1960, it had been made optional in the old rite. It's still optional in the new rite (Ceremonial of Bishops 56).

"I don't know any who wash their hands either before or after vesting."

It's not uncommon here, though certainly not universal.

It's not mentioned in the GIRM, from a quick glance, but it is mentioned in the ordinary form Ceremonial of Bishops at No. 126 "... In the vesting room (sacristy) [sic] he takes off the cappa or the mozzetta and may also remove the rochet, if he is wearing one. He washes his hands and puts on the amice, alb, cincture, pectoral cross, stole, dalmatic, and chasuble. ..." Since the general principle is that what is in the Ceremonial of Bishops applies mutatis mutandis to all celebrations (and indeed, many instructions on what is done in the rites are found only in the Ceremonial of Bishops) the best practice would seem to be for the priest to wash his hands before vesting.

I think StuartK's point is a good one that they should for hygiene's sake as well as symbolism. The washing of hands at the Lavabo is largely symbolic. Jungmann, commenting on the new rites, calls it explicitly symbolic rather than practical.

danman916 #372786 12/08/11 01:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 10,930
I do know one of my husbands set must be burned. It was used so much, and is white, there is no way to really clean, clean it. I spent $50 having them cleaned, and well, I really wouldn't wan't to give them to another deacon. The other sets I have given to the church so our future deacon, in his first year of study will be able to use them. So Abouna said of the old set that he must burn them. I plan on asking if I may take the crosses off and frame them for the kids and grand children. I can't imagine that they coould not be used amongst their icons.

danman916 #372799 12/08/11 10:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 450
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 450
thanks for the info.

Pani Rose #372814 12/08/11 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
I plan on asking if I may take the crosses off and frame them for the kids and grand children. I can't imagine that they coould not be used amongst their icons.

Certainly there is no hindrance to saving those "relics" which you respectfully wish to keep. May Deacon Stan's memory be eternal.

StuartK #372815 12/08/11 04:41 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,760
Originally Posted by StuartK
Anybody know why the Latin priests wash their hands first, and ours wash their hands last?

The practical answer depends on when you light the charcoal. smile

danman916 #372855 12/09/11 12:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 429
When OUP finally released this book, The Embodied Icon: Liturgical Vestments and Sacramental Power in Byzantium, you may have some answers.
http://www.amazon.com/Embodied-Icon-Liturgical-Sacramental-Byzantium/dp/0199592098


Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0