The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Anatoly99, PoboznyNeil, Hammerz75, SSLOBOD, Jayce
6,186 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 536 guests, and 118 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,534
Posts417,715
Members6,186
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
Member
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
I have question regarding the ringing of bell(s) and the celebration of the Divine Liturgy. Within the last several months the pastor of my Byzantine/Ruthenian parish has ordered the ringing of a very cheap and horrid sounding cast iron bell during the Divine Liturgy. The bell is similar to something one could pick-up at Wal*Mart:

[Linked Image from ]

Is there any specification for the quality of the bell being rung? This one sounds terrible and it's rung right at such a special point in the DL. The sound really detracts from the liturgy. The bell is rung by threading a rope through a window and into the sanctuary -- very hokey. Also the bell is rung by swinging. All the bells I know about in the East are rung by affixing a rope to the bell's clapper and not by swinging it.

Any insight would be appreciated.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
F
Member
Member
F Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 779
I would expect bells, like anything else we use in worship to be of the best quality available/affordable to us and that the sound should be beautiful and not a distraction. The voice of the bell is part of divine worship, not an add-on. If a decent bell is not within our means, then don't have a bell at all - or ring the tinny bell before services, but not as part of worship!!!

In Russia bells were always considered of great importance and are still 'baptised' to consecrate their use - that use being according to liturgical prescription and not the ringer's whim...

... and of course, they don't swing in order to ring.

Once upon a time I had the duty of bell ringing and loved the points in the services when it the bells were pealed. I don't know how I did it with lines on fingers, wrists, elbows... My brain must have coped with multi tasking and coordination back then. crazy


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
Member
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46

Yes, a decent sounding bell, best rung by actuating the bell's clapper or no bell at all. I very much agree. It's difficult to articulate how sad it is to hear such a horrid sound during such important parts of the Divine Liturgy.

I would like to better understand what the Byzantine Ruthenian Church is actually prohibiting.

From the Ordo Celebrationis:

"10. Liturgical vestments and linens, other than those indicated in this book for each divine service, should not be used; the use of LITTLE BELLS, large or small organs, so called harmoniums is excluded."

An exception was requested for the above and it was answered with: "the SMALL BELLS are eliminated even from the Solemn Liturgy."

What exactly constitute "LITTLE BELLS" and "SMALL BELLS?" Does anyone really know outside of asking the local bishop if a specific bell(s) is OK to use?

Nothing is mentioned about "handbells" or "hand-held bells" or even "sanctus bells." While it seems fairly clear that typical Latin Rite sanctus bells (either hand held or stationary) are not to be used, would it also preclude the use of tuned, single pitch and larger handbells -- some which are larger than Eastern "hung bells?"

The Church also says nothing about where the bells are to be located. Can they be in the sanctuary or the nave of the church or is this once more a question for the local bishop?

I suspect the pastor of the Rutenian parish I attend didn't really have any definitive guidance on this matter and what he came up with was far worse than no bell at all. Thanks.

Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 219
Likes: 1
P
Member
Member
P Offline
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 219
Likes: 1
Try the Blagovest Bells website. You will find both technical and liturgical information in regards to your questions.

http://www.russianbells.com/intro/intro.html

At St. Elias UGCC in Brampton www.saintelias.com [saintelias.com] we have a fine small set of bronze bells, seven in number which are rung at the various services. In North American probably the best Zvon (set of bells) is at Holy Trinity Monastery
http://www.jordanville.org/ ROCOR. Musica Russica http://www.musicarussica.com/ has a number of CD's featuring bell ringing. Buy one and lend it to your pastor. This might encourage your parish to purchase real bronze bells. They have a pleasant sound and add much to the sonic aspect of Divine Services.

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
Member
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by Protodeacon David Kennedy
Try the Blagovest Bells website. You will find both technical and liturgical information in regards to your questions.

http://www.russianbells.com/intro/intro.html

At St. Elias UGCC in Brampton www.saintelias.com [saintelias.com] we have a fine small set of bronze bells, seven in number which are rung at the various services. In North American probably the best Zvon (set of bells) is at Holy Trinity Monastery
http://www.jordanville.org/ ROCOR. Musica Russica http://www.musicarussica.com/ has a number of CD's featuring bell ringing. Buy one and lend it to your pastor. This might encourage your parish to purchase real bronze bells. They have a pleasant sound and add much to the sonic aspect of Divine Services.

Thanks. I have been in touch with Blagovest Bells but they cannot answer the questions I am asking. I strongly suspect the Ordo Celebrationis' intent was to outlaw the typical hand held sets of 3-4 sanctus bells which are common in the West and possibly the Western "gongs" of tuned orchestra bells. I'm sure it was also to outlaw the Latin-like use of the bells during the celebration of the DL. But it did not say that specifically.

The imprecise language has spawned a lot of urban legend around here such as: the bells must be hung (rather than hand-held) and MUST be outdoors (difficult when smaller bells are the targets of thievery) and must be rung during the celebration of the DL. I suspect these three beliefs along with no consultation with the bishop is what caused the pastor of the parish I attend to come up with such a terrible bell ringing solution. It has become a very touchy subject and I'm reticent to bring it up with him.

The bell ringing CDs sound great. Free audio/video on Eastern bell ringing is readily available on services like youtube:


Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
Member
Member
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 46
For what it's worth, the finest zvon in the USA is probably at Harvard University although the bells are not used for ecclesiastical purposes to my knowledge.

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
Moderator
Member
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,337
Likes: 24
From the Pastoral Handbook, Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, promulgated May 28, 2012:

Liturgical directives
425.m) The use of hand bells or the striking of other small bells during the Divine Liturgy is forbidden (Ordo, #10). Tower bells may be rung.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Member
Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 329
Originally Posted by Franciscum
and possibly the Western "gongs" of tuned orchestra bells. I'm sure it was also to outlaw the Latin-like use of the bells during the celebration of the DL. But it did not say that specifically.

It's possibly worth noting that these "gong" bells sounded with a hammer are also outlawed in the West (by decision of the Sacred Congregation of Rites and the consensus of the approved authors). Also prohibited are tubular chimes.


Moderated by  Administrator 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0