www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Question on All Saints' Day

Six or seven years ago when I was in Cyprus I attended the celebration of the Divine Liturgy in a Greek Orthodox parish for the Feast of All Saints on November 1st. It was followed by a parade in the local village in which the children dressed up as saints. [It was actually pretty awesome - especially the food!] My guess at the time was that this celebration on November 1st was due to a Latin influence coming via the Byzantine Christians in southern Italy.

Does anyone have information on which Orthodox Churches have adopted the celebration of All Saints' Day on November 1st?

How about the celebration of All Souls' Day on November 2nd?

I know that in the various Syrian calendars I've come across, 1 November is marked as All Saints' Day, although I know of no instances where it is actually celebrated as such. There is a Sunday of All Saints in the Syrian calendar, but it comes before Great Lent.

I know I was pleasantly surprised to see this posting on today's Liturgical Texts from New Skete (OCA):

http://moose.qx.net/users/mystery/

The commemoration of all the saints according to the Western calendar.

Friday: The holy and lifegiving cross For All Saints Troparion, Tone IV

Crimsoned with the blood of all your martyrs, O Christ, our God, * your Church cries out to you: * Bestow your mercies on all mankind, * and grant the world your lasting peace.

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com

Dear Administrator,

The Armenian, Syriac, Chaldean Coptic, and Maronite Catholic Churches all observe All Saints' Day today. In all cases, this is a Latin influence (which could also extend to the Orthodox counterparts as my forgiving friend, Qathuliqa Mor Ephrem notes).

Some Greek parishes do observe it through the Crusader influence.

As I've noted before, there is, on Rhodes, a local Orthodox saint who is honoured only on that island who was, in fact, a Roman Catholic crusader, "St. John" who was martyred by the Turks.

He is unknown in the West.

Alex

Alex

Orthodox churches not in communion with Rome do not observe All Saints Day on November 1st. Certain local practices may have cropped up, but would not necessarily be sanctioned by the bishop if he knew. All Saints is officially the first Sunday after Pentecost Sunday. See the Pentecostarion as published by Holy Transfiguration Monastery, Boston.

Dear Jim,

You are right, of course.

But Western Rite Antiochian Orthodoxy does mark today as All Saints' Day - and with the participation of many Eastern bishops as I have a friend who is a former Episcopal priest who belongs to it and have been told.

The Orthodox Church has tacitly affirmed that November Ist is Western All Saints' Day and that this is a legitimate date in keeping with ancient Western practice.

Mainstream Orthodoxy is no longer the "Eastern Only" enclave it once was - although groups like Holy Transfiguration would prefer to keep it that way.

Alex

Jim,

Thanks for your post. The Greek Orthodox Church of Cyprus does celebrate the Feast of All Saints on November 1st. It is on the liturgical calendar I brought back with me which published by the local diocese. This celebration is in addition to the one all of us Byzantine Christians celebrate on the Sunday after Pentecost.

This is obviously a latinization (and one that has not spread to the European Byzantine Churches) but that is not my point. I am more interested in finding out how far East this custom has spread. Given the posts here it seems to have spread to at least the Armenian, Syriac, Chaldean, Coptic, and Maronite Churches.

Admin

Dear Administrator,

I also have an old UGCC prayerbook at home that also indicates All Saints' Day on November 1st - so it has two such days.

I don't know if one can call what the Church of Cyprus does as a "Latinization."

As I understand it, this term refers to a liturgical outcome in an Eastern Church under certain pressures to conform to Western practice.

I remember Dr. John say that local Greek parishes sometimes did such things as a result of events during the struggle with the Turks - seeing Crusaders as heroes rather than villains in a given situation etc.

In any event, what the Church of Cyprus does today cannot be a Latinization since it could surely stop celebrating today's feast at any time and more than likely adopted it voluntarily.

The Melkites, as another example, voluntarily adopted the Feast of the Dormition of St Joseph for March 19th.

That is taken directly from the Latin Calendar but is, by no means, a Latinization as it was done voluntarily and without any compulsion or pressure from Rome for them to conform to Latin pratice.

In the UGCC, certain feasts such as Christ the King, the Sacred Heart et al. are discouraged by Rome and yet many parishes hang on to them as "our traditions."

My own view is a "Latinization" ceases being such when Rome apologises (although the Ukies got those traditions from the Poles and not from Rome directly) and then gets involved in a "tug-of-war" with the Eastern Church over getting rid of it.

Have a great weekend.

Alex

Alex,

This is interesting. I know that some Ruthenian books list the Latin feast of "Christ the King" on the last Sunday of October but this is the first I've heard of a November 1st All Saints' Day being celebrated in a Church of the Ruthenian liturgical tradition.

We have much work to restore our traditions!

Admin

My own knowledge of orthopraxis is pretty much limited to the U.S., of course, except for attending a couple of services at St. Alexander Nevsky cathedral in Paris, France a few years ago. Generally speaking, mainstream orthodox churches in the U.S.outside of communion with Rome do not observe All Saints on Nov. 1st- the OCA, ROCOR, Moscow Patriarchate parishes (there are quite a few, despite the autocephaly of the OCA), Antiocheans (western rite parishes, excepted- I wonder how many of those there actually are), Greek Archdiocese, Serbian Archdiocese- all do not observe it officially.

I would be interested to know about other differences in calendar (except Pascha) between the Ruthenians in the U.S. and Eastern Catholics in eastern Europe. Also, differences in customs after a century of latinization/de-latinization. Any sources for those?

I'm inclined to view the November All Saints as a western tradition only. As I recall, the OCA even observes All Saints of North America (the Sunday after All Saints Sunday, I think). Orthodox don't observe Thanksgiving officially in the U.S., either, though you will probably find a feast in most households anyhow. Apart from new saint's observances, they don't appear to have added to their calendars (Christmas and Pascha calculations excepted) since the Schism of 1054. Am I wrong?

Dear Administrator,

Yes, it was really only in the 19th century and then only in certain areas that the feast of the November All Saints was observed.

It seems to be "rampant" among other Particular Eastern Catholic Churches to this day, however.

The idea of the "first-fruits" of the harvest, as well as the Celtic Samhain celebration is behind this feast, as you know.

Almost every day in November is dedicated to a local Western All Saints' day as well - November 6 is still All Saints of Ireland day and tomorrow is All Jesuit Saints' Day (should we tell Dr John? ).

The problems we Ukies have encountered with All Saints day after Pentecost is the break in the liturgical tradition where All Saints of Rus'-Ukraine is celebrated on the Fourth Sunday after Pentecost and not on the Second.

This is to allow for the celebration of the Feast of the Sacred Heart and Corpus Christi prior to this . . .

We just can't win for losing!

Happy Feast of St Paul Koniuskevich of Siberia!

Alex