The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
Wenura Ravindu, Leeno, San Nicolas, Skanderbeg, ClearwaterByz
5,844 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (Fr. Al), 99 guests, and 36 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,166
Posts414,953
Members5,844
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 13 1 2 3 4 12 13
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by Utroque
Originally Posted by Apotheoun
Originally Posted by StuartK
Unity in essentials, diversity in the unessential, charity in everything. Don't make mountains out of molehills. You have a nasty tendency to do so in a very pugnacious manner. Fortunately, most of the Orthodox I know are much more eirenic and if they have a chip on their shoulder, leave it at home.
I agree. And as I see it the papacy is not essential to the Church. The bishops in general are successors of all of the Apostles, which necessarily includes St. Peter.

Well, I suppose the Apostles didn't need St Peter, but without him they were headless.
Forgetting about their Head and Ours?

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by StuartK
Unity in essentials, diversity in the unessential, charity in everything. Don't make mountains out of molehills. You have a nasty tendency to do so in a very pugnacious manner. Fortunately, most of the Orthodox I know are much more eirenic and if they have a chip on their shoulder, leave it at home.
Well, if some can go home to the Vatican Mount and chip the mountain of Pastor Aeternus away down to a molehill, irenic ecclesiastical (as opposed to, for instance, social or political pursuits, which I have no problem with collaboration on) pursuits might have some aims worthy of support. In the meantime, keep the powder dry.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
Your problem is an unwillingness to discuss options. There is an ongoing discussion of the meaning and exercise of primacy, as well as the relationship of primacy to conciliarity. So the reduction of everything to a "repudiation" of Pastor Aeternus shows a certain lack of both imagination and will.

Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
J
JDC Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
Originally Posted by StuartK
...a certain lack of both imagination and will.

These are the hallmarks of humanity, are they not?

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
I
Member
Offline
Member
I
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 839
Originally Posted by StuartK
Your problem is an unwillingness to discuss options.

A "problem" I share with Popes St. Athanasius and St. Cyril, among others.
Originally Posted by StuartK
There is an ongoing discussion of the meaning and exercise of primacy, as well as the relationship of primacy to conciliarity.
Yes. We all don't have to come to the arm wrestling matches between Old and New Rome.
Originally Posted by StuartK
So the reduction of everything to a "repudiation" of Pastor Aeternus shows a certain lack of both imagination and will.
Patriarch Sophronius showed such a lack of imagination. Pope Honorius and EP Sergius certainly had the will.

Lack of imagination and will. Hmmm. Sounds a lot like the limbo the Vatican has put its sui juris churches in on their married priests, among other issues. We're waiting to see its actions catch up with its words in repudiating its past on such issues. So far Pastor Aeternus is practicing what it preaches, and we have no need of another gospel.

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Isa is probably going to faint but he is right in this case. Until Rome can unambigously give us meaningful autonomy without interference the Orthodox have no reason to believe anything Rome says regarding reunion and respect or Eastern tradition.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Until Rome can unambigously give us meaningful autonomy without interference the Orthodox have no reason to believe anything Rome says regarding reunion and respect or Eastern tradition.

Agreed. The Patriarch has offered some flowery and charitable ecumenical language. But the reality of the situation is much different.

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
OP Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
But you know part of it is self responsibility in starting to live as who you are. Your Bishops and laity alike.

Last edited by Stephanos I; 12/18/12 06:18 PM.
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 693
Likes: 5
U
Member
Offline
Member
U
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 693
Likes: 5
After centuries of isolation from the east and domination in the west, the Church of Rome needs to develop a new role for herself in relationship to Orthodoxy which has preserved an authentic ecclesiastical tradition of national autonomous churches. The western churches are not used to this ecclesiastical structure, and are uneasy with it. Not to worry. Melkite Catholics have led the way, and will continue to lead the way in making a strong stance against this papal overbearance; thus, paving the way for eventual union among the apostolic churches. On the other hand, the east must respect the validity of the western structures that have developed from ancient times as well, and try not to impose theirs as the only way, IMHO.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
Quote
Until Rome can unambigously give us meaningful autonomy without interference the Orthodox have no reason to believe anything Rome says regarding reunion and respect or Eastern tradition.

It's actually up to us to insist upon this. But too many of our bishops are enamored of the status quo, and many, in their heart of hearts, like being uniates.

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by Stephanos I
But you know part of it is self responsibility in starting to live as who you are. Your Bishops and laity alike.

I no longer accept this criticism, not when the deck is stacked by Rome appointing bishops willing to maintain the status quo.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
You're a deacon--so you're at the beck and call of your bishop. But the laity are not, and should be standing up for the fullness of the Tradition.

Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Aug 1998
Posts: 4,282
Likes: 16
Originally Posted by StuartK
You're a deacon--so you're at the beck and call of your bishop. But the laity are not, and should be standing up for the fullness of the Tradition.
The laity can only do so much. Only the bishops can mandate standards and hold priests accountable, or ordain married men, or elect and install their brother bishops or primates.


My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 978
Quote
The laity can only do so much.

I think that the laity have an important role to play. If we lay Greek Catholics raise our youth (the future deacons, priests, and bishops) in the fullness of our patrimony we can help shape the future of our Churches. So, it starts with us living our faith to the fullness.

We, the laity, need to support our priests who share the vision of Greek Catholicism as a witness to unity with the Orthodox Church and encourage them.

Quote
Only the bishops can mandate standards and hold priests accountable, or ordain married men, or elect and install their brother bishops or primates.

I pray our Patriarchs, Metropolitans, and Bishops continue (or start in some cases) the revival of Greek Catholicism and continue to stand up for our rights as Churches.

Last edited by Nelson Chase; 12/18/12 11:19 PM.
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 844
Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
Quote
The laity can only do so much.

I think that the laity have an important role to play. If we lay Greek Catholics raise our youth (the future deacons, priests, and bishops) in the fullness of our patrimony we can help shape the future of our Churches. So, it starts with us living our faith to the fullness.

We, the laity, need to support our priests who share the vision of Greek Catholicism as a witness to unity with the Orthodox Church and encourage them.

Quote
Only the bishops can mandate standards and hold priests accountable, or ordain married men, or elect and install their brother bishops or primates.

I pray our Patriarchs, Metropolitans, and Bishops continue (or start in some cases) the revival of Greek Catholicism and continue to stand up for our rights as Churches.

This is true, Nelson. As mentioned, we should sway some from the Latin Church to the direction of the Eastern Rite, and make sure that they understand that we could use new faces in our congregations, and make sure they understand that we are just as much Catholic as they are. This has been a tough sell for quite a few, but we have to reach to the "Other Rite/Other Lung" if you will, in order to really evangelize in a hurry.

Page 2 of 13 1 2 3 4 12 13

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5