The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
That latin friend, Deacon Eric, Pastor Freed, Sebastian, Deepu
5,836 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 73 guests, and 33 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,153
Posts414,831
Members5,836
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
M
Junior Member
OP Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 6
My great-grandfather was apparantly a Ukrainian Catholic. His daughter (my grandmother) was Greek Orthodox. My father is not baptized. I am naptised Roman Catholic. Can I also be a Ukrainian Rite through my great grandfather?

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 127
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 127
I do not know, Mike. I always thought, or I should say heard, the identity for a Byzantine Catholic could come through the father in the case of a mixed-rite marriage. For example, if a Ukrainian Catholic [Male] married a Roman Catholic [Female], the son would have a Byzantine identity.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,249
Likes: 16
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,249
Likes: 16
That would be up to you - you shouldn't and cannot belong to more than one Particular EC Church at a time.

Attend some services in a UGCC parish and see how you feel about it.

Alex

Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2
Z
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
Z
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 2
I don't think that you inherit a sui iuris Church from someone who is not part of the Church (not baptized).

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
Global Moderator
Member
Offline
Global Moderator
Member
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 10,079
Likes: 11
If your Father is not baptized, then your ritual Church is inherited through the maternal line. So, it will depend on the Church sui iuris in which your Mother was baptized.

That said, take Alex's advice. Learn about and explore your Ukrainian Catholic heritage.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Forgive my ignorance. Does a Catholic join a particular parish? In Eastern Orthodoxy a person becomes a member of a particular parish. That gives them the right to participate in the yearly meeting of the members of the parish that approves the yearly budget for the parish and elects the Parish Council to manage the finances and temporal affairs of the parish between meetings of the membership. The impression that I get is that in the Catholic Church a person who was Baptized in the Latin Rite could not join an Easter Rite parish. Is that true? We have no such restrictions in the Eastern Orthodox Church. If a Byzantine Rite Antiochian Orthodox Christian wanted to join a Western Rite Antiochian Orthodox parish there would be no problem.

Fr. John W. Morris

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,666
Likes: 12
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,666
Likes: 12
Fr. John,

Yes, for purposes of housekeeping the Catholic Church registers people in the particular Church they belong to (i.e., Melkite, Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Maronite, Latin, etc.).

Those who are baptized as infants are registered in the Church of their parents (unless the parents state otherwise). Those who are baptized as adults are registered in the Church they choose. One may also transfer enrollment from one Church to another.

This enrollment is really only a factor when seeing to be married or ordained.

This enrollment does not affect the ability of an individual to belong to any Catholic parish anywhere. Someone who is a Latin may join and belong to a Melkite parish for as long as he wishes.

John

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Originally Posted by Administrator
Fr. John,

Yes, for purposes of housekeeping the Catholic Church registers people in the particular Church they belong to (i.e., Melkite, Ruthenian, Ukrainian, Maronite, Latin, etc.).

Those who are baptized as infants are registered in the Church of their parents (unless the parents state otherwise). Those who are baptized as adults are registered in the Church they choose. One may also transfer enrollment from one Church to another.

This enrollment is really only a factor when seeing to be married or ordained.

This enrollment does not affect the ability of an individual to belong to any Catholic parish anywhere. Someone who is a Latin may join and belong to a Melkite parish for as long as he wishes.

John

I do not understand your answer. Does not on usually get married in their own parish? Is not one ordained by the Bishop under whom they went to seminary. If someone came to me and wanted me to marry them or baptize their child who was not a member of my parish, I would have to have the approval of their pastor first.
I know that a Catholic can be married to an Orthodox Christian by an Orthodox Priest and that the Catholics understand that if an Orthodox Christian is married by a Catholic Priest, that they couple will have to have their marriage blessed by an Orthodox Priest.
Fr. John W. Morris

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,666
Likes: 12
John
Member
Offline
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,666
Likes: 12
Fr. John,

You asked: “Does not one usually get married in their own parish?”

Yes, of course. But how do you determine what one’s own parish is? On the surface it should be easy. It’s the parish they belong to. But life is sometimes more complicated. Especially when in a single town there can be multiple overlapping jurisdictions each with different customs and laws.

Perhaps a fictional example will help make the point.

You are the pastor of an Antiochian parish. Imagine that a young Orthodox couple joins your parish. You welcome them. Then, imagine that after two months they approach you to marry them. During the Pre-Cana counseling you discover that they were both born and raised in the Greek Orthodox Church across town, that they were happy members there until two months ago, that they became engaged only after they left that parish (just before they joined your parish), that they currently drive past their former parish every Sunday and travel an extra 30 minutes to get to your parish, and that the man was previously married in the Greek Orthodox Church. As an experienced pastor your antenna immediately go up and you pick up the phone and call the Greek Orthodox pastor to ask some questions. In the end, you might direct them back to their pastor of 25 years to resolve whatever situation they are running from. Or, all might be well and you marry them and they live as happy members of your parish.

Consider another fictional example of a man studying for the seminary under an Antiochian bishop. He might complete his seminary studies and take his degree, but the bishop may choose not to ordain him. For his pastoral care the bishops might make a common agreement to require the man to obtain a written release from the original bishop before he can approach a different bishop for ordination.

What we have in Catholicism is a formal, written method of managing such issues.

Consider a secular example. We are both American citizens and hold the same Constitutional rights and are subject to the same federal laws. I am also a resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia. Under the Constitution of Virginia I have certain rights and obligations. Likewise, you are a resident of the State of Mississippi, and have the rights and obligations of a resident of that State. If I become wealthy enough to purchase a winter home in Mississippi my house there and my behavior while there are both subject to the laws of Mississippi. But since my primary residence and my voting registration is in Virginia I am primarily a resident of Virginia. I could easily move from Virginia to Mississippi, and register to vote there. But to do this I need to tell Virginia about so that they know I am no longer a resident of Virginia. Membership in a Particular Catholic Church is kind of similar. Each, over the centuries, developed its own laws and its own way of doing things. And a Catholic can only belong to one Particular Church at a time. And because a person is always under the pastoral care of a bishop, a blessing from the old and new bishop is necessary to move from one Particular Church to another.

You might say that all this is silly legalism, and that these things should just be handled by common sense. You might be correct in saying so. But the Catholic Church has chosen to arrange it’s household the way it has chosen to arrange it’s household.

John


Moderated by  Alice, Father Deacon Ed, theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5