The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
arekeon27, Wenura Ravindu, Leeno, San Nicolas, Skanderbeg
5,845 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (Michael_Thoma), 73 guests, and 30 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Byzantine Nebraska
Byzantine Nebraska
by orthodoxsinner2, December 11
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,168
Posts414,963
Members5,845
Most Online3,380
Dec 29th, 2019
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 2
A
Member
Offline
Member
A
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,838
Likes: 2
Originally Posted by chadrook
Since this is still moving along, the Pope has made some new statements.

http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/

"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."

Has he been to LA lately? So it is my conception of evil that counts? Sorry, but I am finding this a bit problematic.
I read that interview yesterday, which is why I said in an earlier post that my concern grows "with every interview Pope Francis gives to the media."

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,226
Originally Posted by Apotheoun
I read that interview yesterday, which is why I said in an earlier post that my concern grows "with every interview Pope Francis gives to the media."

Yes. There are some very disturbing comments.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 7,309
Likes: 1
Read the following article Francis in Dialogue with the World [firstthings.com] from First Things.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,272
Likes: 20
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 26,272
Likes: 20
Excellent article by Pope Benedict!

I'm very happy, Todd, that you have become such a papist with respect to His Holiness Pope Benedict!!

Alex

Last edited by Orthodox Catholic; 10/02/13 06:06 PM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 127
V
Member
Offline
Member
V
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 127
It is with great sadness that I say this: Pope Francis needs to attend numerous Catechism classes before he should be allowed to speak to the press. His remarks are only going to undermine all evangelizing efforts by Christ's true faithful.

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,954
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,954
We must understand that Popes and Patriarchs speak on a profound spiritual level, and aren't always understood easily.

If we read the above 'troubling' statement in context, and carefully, we will see that it is not so bad--(as if we are in a position to judge, LOL)

Quote
Your Holiness, is there is a single vision of the Good? And who decides what it is?

"Each of us has a vision of good and of evil. We have to encourage people to move towards what they think is Good."

Your Holiness, you wrote that in your letter to me. The conscience is autonomous, you said, and everyone must obey his conscience. I think that's one of the most courageous steps taken by a Pope.

"And I repeat it here. Everyone has his own idea of good and evil and must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them. That would be enough to make the world a better place."

Is the Church doing that?

"Yes, that is the purpose of our mission: to identify the material and immaterial needs of the people and try to meet them as we can. Do you know what agape is?"


Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
J
JDC Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 610
I am not seeing the part where it's not so bad. I have taken considerable consolation in the part of his exhortation where His Holiness makes a point of saying that people oughtn't expect the Pope to have all the answers, or even very good answers, all the time.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209
I think it is entirely possible to take the Pope's remarks about conscience in a way that really isn't troubling at all. I am a little troubled that some insist on taking his remarks only in ways that they find troubling. Isn't the Pope entitled to a little charity too?

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,954
Moderator
Member
Offline
Moderator
Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,954
Originally Posted by eastwardlean?
I think it is entirely possible to take the Pope's remarks about conscience in a way that really isn't troubling at all. I am a little troubled that some insist on taking his remarks only in ways that they find troubling. Isn't the Pope entitled to a little charity too?

Agreed.

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
E
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
Offline
Za myr z'wysot ...
Member
E
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,125
Originally Posted by eastwardlean?
I think it is entirely possible to take the Pope's remarks about conscience in a way that really isn't troubling at all. I am a little troubled that some insist on taking his remarks only in ways that they find troubling. Isn't the Pope entitled to a little charity too?
Eastward,

I think you've got the right idea. We tend to express our faith in terms of propositions. While this isn't a bad thing in itself, it can become problematic when somebody expresses the same faith from a different perspective and uses different concepts or cultural images, and it *seems* to contradict the faith as we know it, according to our propositions.

However, we sometimes need to remind ourselves that our faith is not in any set of propositions, but in God Himself, Whose truth transcends all human expression.


Peace,
Deacon Richard

Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
C
Member
OP Offline
Member
C
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 357
That's all well and good. But the title of the post is "What does the Pope mean by this?"

I am not asking for controversy or speculation. Even with the explanation of propositional logic, is there not any sort of propositions that are universally agreed upon by the Catholic church?

We do use propositions to define our faith, the creed is one example. This is not a game of gotcha, it is a question.

Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by chadrook
That's all well and good. But the title of the post is "What does the Pope mean by this?"

I am not asking for controversy or speculation. Even with the explanation of propositional logic, is there not any sort of propositions that are universally agreed upon by the Catholic church?

We do use propositions to define our faith, the creed is one example. This is not a game of gotcha, it is a question.

I take your point, chadrook. My appeal for interpretive charity wasn't really aimed at your initial question but at what I thought was a more recent installment of the thread.

All I meant to say is that I think it's possible to understand what Pope Francis had to say in a way that's in line with what the Catholic tradition has often had to say about conscience. It needn't be taken as underwriting or even reproducing relativism.


Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,431
Originally Posted by volodymyr
It is with great sadness that I say this: Pope Francis needs to attend numerous Catechism classes before he should be allowed to speak to the press.
I'm no ultramontanist, but eek .

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 82
Anyone who has dealt with the press should know that they frequently take comments out of context. Dealing with the secular press is very difficult because of their liberal bias. If someone like the Pope says that we should loved gays, they take it and run with it and make it sound like the Pope is thinking about changing the Catholic position on these homosexuality to a more politically correct position. We all know that nothing could further from his mind.

Fr. John W. Morris

Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Member
Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,505
Good point Stuart I made this same comment in my homily last Sunday when I spoke of the importance of Baptism.

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2022 (Forum 1998-2022). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5