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That will happen when "the shrimp whistles on the mountain"

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They are already looking into authorizing the ordination of married men in Amazonia!

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Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
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At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Could someone elaborate more on why the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches are not allowed to ordain married men?
In the case of the Syro-Malabar Church, well.. have you heard the joke, 'more Catholic than the Pope'? Time will tell.

In the case of the Syro-Malankara, in modern 'rewritten' history it is said that Mor Ivanios intended a celibate priesthood as head of the monastic groups when he translated to Catholicism from Orthodoxy. And that this decision is binding. However, he did allow married men to be ordained deacons and priests while he was alive.. and married Marthoma clergy are ordained when they convert, and Orthodox priests are received.

My personal opinion is that Mor Ivanios expected the rest of the bishops of the Malankara Orthodox Church to join him. He would remain head of the celibates, and they would continue to do as they did.

When the Code of Canons for the Syro-Malankara Church was passed in 1990, not a mention of married deacons or priests was included. Not sure why.

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At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?

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Sometmes EC bishops can be more "papal than the pope."

The clergy in those Churches should just go ahead with their plans for ordination and see what happens . . .

Alex

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Originally Posted by griego catolico
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At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?
Let's hope.. although, I'm not holding my breath..

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Originally Posted by griego catolico
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At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?

No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.


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article appearing on the Catholic Register [catholicregister.org] website

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Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?

No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.

Hmm, this raises some very interesting questions.
Who has the final word then? The Pope or a synod?

It almost appears to be a given that both synods of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches will change this. After all, who wants to be viewed as going against what the Pope has now allowed?

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Originally Posted by griego catolico
Originally Posted by Fr. Deacon Lance
Originally Posted by griego catolico
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Does this mean that with the announcement the option for married clergy will now exist in the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches?

No, they have required celibacy as part of their particular law, although the Synod could change it. On the otherhand, even with mandatory celibacy they have a glut of vocations.

Hmm, this raises some very interesting questions.
Who has the final word then? The Pope or a synod?

It almost appears to be a given that both synods of the Syro-Malabar and Syro-Malankara Catholic Churches will change this. After all, who wants to be viewed as going against what the Pope has now allowed?
Why? The Syro-Malabars have more vocations than they can use now, many being loaned to Latin diocese in India and the U.S. They also live in a wider cultural context in which celibacy is traditional and respected. The Syro-Malankars may, but I don't know if there is a push to change this. They do accept married priests from the Orthodox.


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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by Nelson Chase
Quote
At present, all Eastern Catholic Churches may allow married men to the diaconate and the priesthood, except the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches.

Could someone elaborate more on why the Syro-Malabarese and Syro-Malankara Churches are not allowed to ordain married men?
In the case of the Syro-Malabar Church, well.. have you heard the joke, 'more Catholic than the Pope'? Time will tell.

In the case of the Syro-Malankara, in modern 'rewritten' history it is said that Mor Ivanios intended a celibate priesthood as head of the monastic groups when he translated to Catholicism from Orthodoxy. And that this decision is binding. However, he did allow married men to be ordained deacons and priests while he was alive.. and married Marthoma clergy are ordained when they convert, and Orthodox priests are received.

My personal opinion is that Mor Ivanios expected the rest of the bishops of the Malankara Orthodox Church to join him. He would remain head of the celibates, and they would continue to do as they did.

When the Code of Canons for the Syro-Malankara Church was passed in 1990, not a mention of married deacons or priests was included. Not sure why.

I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest. This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!

I believe if syro malabar had the will, it could do it much easier considering the size of the church and large wealth it owns. But sadly it wont!.

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Originally Posted by PPJ
I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.

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Originally Posted by Irish Melkite
that is Magister's interpretation. Italy has eparchies and an exarchate (exarchial abbey), therefore it has administrative structures - note the following text:

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in the Eastern Administrative Constituencies (Metropolia, Eparchies, Exarchates) constituted outside of the traditional territories, these faculties are conferred on the Eastern Hierarchs, to exercise according to the traditions of their respective Churches.

Magister needs to get out more.

The relevant text, to which Magister refers, reads:

Quote
- in territories in which the Eastern faithful are deprived of a specific administrative structure and are entrusted to the care of the Latin Bishops of the place,

This is news to me. Are you referring to the Italo-Albanian eparchies that cover small regions of Southern Italy? Or are there Romanian or Ukrainian eparchies covering Italy in the way they cover the US and Canada?

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Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by PPJ
I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.

Married deacon discussion came around 2-3 years back. And I happen to read one of the document where it has mentioned that current seminaries are not designed to support students stay with family. And questions where there like will people get encouraged to come to seminaries if they are staying away from family as it is mandatory for the student to stay inside seminary. The salary of married clergy was also in discussion that will it support family with non-working spouse etc. Whatever, church was really serious about admitting married students for becoming permanent deacon. I am not sure what is the status of it now.


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Originally Posted by PPJ
Originally Posted by Michael_Thoma
Originally Posted by PPJ
I dont think malankara syrian catholic church is against married priest/deacons or dont have the power to. For past few years it has been trying to reintroduce married permanent deacons. But it was facing challenges as how to accommodate the family of the married deacon, finance etc. Probably once it is successful with married permanent deacon, it may give courage for the church for married priest.
Why should this be an issue? The Deacon probably has a secular job, as do most wives in these days. Why should finances matter at all?

Quote
This wouldnt have been issue if married priests were already there for long time. Starting afresh again gives lot of challenges especially with small sized church compared to orthodox which is 4-5 times bigger. Money matters!!!
The Malankara Syrian Catholic Church came to Communion with Rome in 1930. We had married clergy for the first generation. We also have married priests now, although few and far between. We had married clergy when Orthodox. So it hasn't been more than a few decades that the celibate priesthood is being promoted to the EXCLUSION of married clergy, in the Malankara Syrian Catholic Church.

Married deacon discussion came around 2-3 years back. And I happen to read one of the document where it has mentioned that current seminaries are not designed to support students stay with family. And questions where there like will people get encouraged to come to seminaries if they are staying away from family as it is mandatory for the student to stay inside seminary. The salary of married clergy was also in discussion that will it support family with non-working spouse etc. Whatever, church was really serious about admitting married students for becoming permanent deacon. I am not sure what is the status of it now.
How can this be a serious move toward married deacons? It's not as if this has never happened anywhere and is an innovation? The Orthodox have them, the protestant Marthomas in Kerala have married ministers, even our Eastern Catholic sister Churches all over the world have married deacons and priests with children. Why would it be absolutely mandatory for students to stay away from their family when studying? I'm sure an easy accommodation can be made, and those willing to pursue are willing to sacrifice.

In regard to non-working spouses of married clergy - it could be set that the spouse should be working or at least financially secure. Non-working spouses are probably a minority among modern families.

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