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On 31 March 2015, the first meeting of the bilateral commission which will consider the possibility of the Moscow Patriarchate recognizing the hierarchy of the Russian Orthodox Old-Rite Church took place in Moscow.

The participants decided to continue the dialogue at future sessions.

https://mospat.ru/en/2015/04/01/news117335/

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Does anyone have any further information on this? How long have these talks been going on? What are the chances of success?

My understanding is that the Belokrinitskaya Hierarchy was established by a defector "new rite" bishop, so at the very least it seems they recognize our hierarchy to some extent. There's also the question of recognizing saints.

I think a reunion would be wonderful (I'm aware of the edinoverie but they seem to be fairly small at the moment). The Old Rite is so beautiful and I think Nikon's reforms were a disaster.

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There is a push to bring the priested Old Rite Orthodox into union with the MP and there was formerly talk of the MP recognizing St Avvakum and other saints of the Old Rite and placing them in its own calendar (individual parishes of the "United Believers" were allowed, of course, to continue their veneration of their own saints).

In one of the reports that can be found in Russian on the MP site, it was noted that there were so many more United Believer parishes prior to the Russian Revolution as compared to only the handful that obtain now. Also, both Old and New Rites were referred to in that report as the "two Rites of the Holy Russian Orthodox Church."

But it is clear that the situation with the priested Old Believers in Russia is now different as they have their own priested jurisdictions and one patriarchate - something that didn't obtain prior to the Russian Revolution.

St Ambrose of Bielaya Krinitsa was the Greek Orthodox bishop who went over to the Old Believers. There were also New Hieromartyrs who were "Biritual" or who served Old Rite parishes. St Maximos the Greek was also someone who favoured the Old Rite (for which position he endured persecution).

Glorifications of Old Rite Saints have been a regular feature of the priested Old Believer jurisdictions - there would be no hindrance to their continual veneration in future, of course, after a formal reunion with the MP.

The MP has now moved from the reconciliation of individuals and parishes of the Old Rite to the (more ecumenical) acknowledgement of their hierarchies and possible future ecclesial reconciliation.

Alex the old Believer

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Thanks for the info, Alex. I do hope that the MP would be open to recognizing the sanctity of St. Avvakum and others.

I would be curious to see what exactly is being said at these meetings, what the objections on both sides are, etc.

Re: St. Maximos the Greek, he actually predated the Nikonian reforms. He was persecuted for his support of the Non-Possessor movement, but the Old Believers have great veneration for him.

BTW does the UGCC have Old Believer parishes?


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One of my professors first published book was on Maxim Grek, who had been a Roman Catholic Dominican for a while in Italy and witnessed Savonarola's immolation. I believe Maxim's persecution stemmed from a translation peculiarity. This professor later focused on mediaeval literature and fairy tales. Though a Rhodes scholar, you had to take a lot of what he said with a grain of salt. He also often made errors in Russian word stress and would get rather flustered when Mrs. R would correct him.
I thought Maxim was glorified sometime after the break-up of the USSR.

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Originally Posted by SwanOfEndlessTales
BTW does the UGCC have Old Believer parishes?

Swan,

No. However, there have been a few individual Eastern Catholic priests who at times served according to the Old Rite, notably our dearly beloved friend, brother, and fellow forumite, Father Archimandrite Serge Keleher, of blessed memory, who pastored the UGCC parish in Dublin.

The sole existing Old Rite Catholic parish is in Russia and is of the Russian Greek-Catholic Church. As memory serves, it is in St. Petersburg.

There was once a single, very small, Old Rite Russian Catholic community in Oregon, but its last surviving member, Brother Ambrose Moorman, OSB, reposed a few years ago. May his memory be eternal!

Prior to the Russian Revolution there were at least two Russian Greek Catholic Old Rite communities but their faithful are presumed to have been martyred in the early religious pogroms there, as were their presbyters. Memory eternal!

Many years,

Neil

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"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."
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Originally Posted by Mark R
One of my professors first published book was on Maxim Grek, who had been a Roman Catholic Dominican for a while in Italy and witnessed Savonarola's immolation. I believe Maxim's persecution stemmed from a translation peculiarity.

This was the issue his persecutors seized on, but as I recall it had more to do with his annoying the rich and powerful through his alliance with the Non-Possessors.

Quote
I thought Maxim was glorified sometime after the break-up of the USSR.

He was canonized in 1988 by both the EP and Moscow. I had the privilege of venerating his relics in Troitse-Sergeyeva monastery.

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Christ is Risen!!

The Blessed Hierarch Metropolitan Andrew Sheptytsky actually kept an Old Rite Chapel in Lviv and was intensely interested in the Old Rite traditions. It was he whose work led to the creation of the "Russian Orthodox Church in communion with Rome" along with the recognition of both the New and the Old Rites.

There was an Old Rite Orthodox priest (whose name escapes me now) who, together with his parish, came under the omophorion of Metropolitan Andrew. That priest was later martyred by the soviets.

Alex

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St Maximos the Greek was a disciple of Savonarola's and this is mentioned in the Slavic Akathist to St Maximos (found on the website akafist.narod.ru).

In fact, Savonarola himself is referred to as "Blessed Jerome" in that akathist! (Russian Orthodox theologians always had a very high view of Savonarola just as they did of Jan Hus).

St Maximos the Greek, while in prison, wrote his famous "Canon to the Most Holy Spirit" on the wall of his cell. That canon is used formally by the Orthodox Church to this day.

Alex

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Voila:

http://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2013/01/st-maximus-greek-canon-to-all-holy.html

I would take a longer look at it, but it is off to Sobor for Easter.

Christos voskrese! Christos anesti! Al-Masih Qam! Hristos a inviat!
Christus resurrexit! Christ is risen!

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Originally Posted by Orthodox Catholic
There was an Old Rite Orthodox priest (whose name escapes me now) who, together with his parish, came under the omophorion of Metropolitan Andrew. That priest was later martyred by the soviets.

Alex,

Is the Servant of God Father Patapios Emilianov the martyr of whom you are thinking? Father Patapios was martyred on 14 August 1936.

[Linked Image]

He and his entire congregation, indicated to be about 1,000 faithful, were received by Metropolitan Andrew in 1918, as memory serves.

Many years,

Neil


"One day all our ethnic traits ... will have disappeared. Time itself is seeing to this. And so we can not think of our communities as ethnic parishes, ... unless we wish to assure the death of our community."

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