www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship The Other Sacramental Mysteries BAPTISED IN POLAND, UNBAPTISED IN GREECE

REGARDING THE RECEPTION OF CONVERTS AND "RE-BAPTISM"
Renascent Donatism
The great danger posed to the Orthodox Church in the United States today is renascent Donatism. Individuals who believe that the efficacy or reality of a Mystery depends upon the spiritual condition of the clergyman who celebrates them affirm the heretical belief called Donatism which was condemned as a heresy by the Council of Carthage in AD 404.
The Donatist heresy manifests itself also when individuals proclaim that certain Churches or jurisdictions — and thus their Mysteries — are “without grace.” This is a sin against the Holy Spirit Who manifests Himself both within and without the Orthodox Church according to the Divine Will.
Such Donatistic denial of grace is often a subterfuge to which individuals may resort when trying to justify either their abandonment of their own Bishop or the condemnation of a supposed schismatic element in the Church.
Donatistic positions are often assumed by those who are overly preoccupied by juridical correctness and jurisdictional canonicity. Perhaps it would be better to avoid such legalisms, which in any event are foreign to the Orthodox fronema (mindset), and simply to accept the fact that canonical anomalies are currently unavoidable in the new and unusual administrative circumstances encountered by the Orthodox Church in this multi-national, multi-ethnic, heterogeneous American society.
Legalists who misuse the Sacred Canons and the Holy Fathers to hurt innocent people - or even guilty people, for that matter — are not champions of the Faith and traditionalists. they are misanthropes — haters of their fellow men — which is a terrible sin.
"Love without truth is false; truth without love is ingenuine."
From Diocesan News
Publication of the Diocese of Denver
Greek Orthodox Church of America
December 1997
http://www.orthodoxresearchinstitute.org/articles/liturgics/reception_of_converts.htm

Francisco, this chapter in the article is aimed at our schismatics in the numerous "Old Calendarist" and "True Orthodox" Churches. We have more than our fair share of Lefebvre-type groups and Sedevacantists.

The point is that in this paper they speak openly about "Donatism" ("the efficacy or reality of a Mystery depends upon the spiritual condition of the clergyman who celebrates" that Mystery) as a heretical belief "condemned" "by the Council of Carthage in AD 404" from an Orthodox point of view.

Apparently there are people in the Orthodox Church who do not consider St. Cyprian of Carthage, the third-century North African councils presided over by him, Firmilian of Caesaraea in Cappadocia and The Apostolic Canons, "probably representative of Church discipline in Syria during the 380s" as the "most qualified and genuine expression" of Orthodox sacramental theology.

Who are these people?

Saint Cyprian is highly cherished but let's not forget that he fought rather strongly against Pope Saint Stephen over sacramental theology.

The crux of the argument. Pope Stephen taught that baptism outside the Church was salvific and grace-filled ("valid" in your terms.) Saint Cyprian said No! Baptism administered outside the Church is ineffective.

-oOo-
One of the Mods wrote an insightful paper on this topic

The Orthodox (Cyprianite) and Catholic (Augustinian) Theology
of Sacraments outside the Church

Message 400465

https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbt...e_BAPTISED_IN_POLAND_UNBAPTIS#Post400465

Nobody disagrees and I don't see how this relates to this conversation.

The Synod of the Brithish Orthodox Church to the Synod of the Coptic Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria on the issue of the acceptance of Catholic Baptism: The Coptic Church has always adopted the view of Pope Saint Stephen

http://byztex1.blogspot.com.es/2013/08/uk-copts-want-to-accept-chalcedonians.html

http://britishorthodox.org/wp-conte...of-Catholics-Full-text-sent-to-Cairo.pdf

Roman-Catholic priest converts to Orthodoxy - Orthodox Church