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I was told by an Eastern Father not to mix Western and Eastern traditions. Example, Byzantine catholics shouldn't pray the rosary. How do you feel about this, do you use Latin devotions?

Dear Daily Monk,

Perhaps the Eastern Father you mention never, ever heard of St Seraphim of Sarov - a great Eastern Father himself!

St Seraphim of Sarov prayed the "Rule of the Mother of God" consisting of 150 Hail Mary's divided into decades.

St Seraphim Zvezdinsky, shot by the Reds in 1937, prayed 15 decades with 15 reflections on the Lives of the Mother of God and of Christ.

This prayer rule is still said in Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria and elsewhere - anywhere where St Seraphim of Sarov is honoured.

"Staretz Zechariah: An Early Soviet Saint" in chapter six describes all this in detail.

You might consider getting that book for that "Eastern Father" for his Nameday!

Alex

The Orthodox Father I'm speaking of was in passing, someone asked him about the rosary... I don't believe it was meant in a negitive way, but an emphasis on the theological different between East and West. The process of 'becoming like God' being different, with the goal the same.

That is a private devotion and if someone wants to pray it they should. God calls us all to prayer, some are more comfotable with one type of prayer, and someone else likes another. Just like we don't all wear the same shoes. So Jesus gives us different types of prayers to draw closer to Him. They have different purposes sometimes, but ultimatley the same goal. A deeper relationship with God, the salvation of sinners, and whatever else falls inbetween there as we need it.

Dear DM,

I think we can see that RC's today are very open to Theosis in a way they were not before.

There was a time when they viewed Palamism as a kind of "Quietist heresy" and the like.

But one thing we should say about the RC's is that they are flexible and have little problem learning from others and adapting to them.

Perhaps this is tied in with their "development of doctrine" perspective, I don't know.

But this has nothing to do with the fact that the praying of 150 Hail Mary's as a rule of prayer has existed in both East and West for centuries.

Western Saints, like St Dominic, have actually opposed the term "Rosary" or "Rosarium" and preferred "Psalter."

It is a private form of prayer, like the Jesus Prayer, but it CAN be done in groups.

The Diveyevo nuns pray and even sing this Rule of Prayer as they walk around their monastery together.

http://isichasm.by.ru is a Russian language site on the Jesus Prayer where it is stated that there have been Russian elders and saints who made the Eastern "Rejoice O Theotokos Virgin" or "Hail Mary" the basis of their "prayer of the heart."

That is, in addition to saying the daily 150 Hail Mary rule, they ONLY prayed that prayer day and night!

They quote one Orthodox Father as saying that the daily recitatino of the Rule of the Mother of God is incumbent upon ALL Christians and that it is MORE IMPORTANT than ANY OTHER daily prayer to the Theotokos that we can use, including the Akathist!

St Seraphim of Sarov said, as quoted on that site, that the Rule of the Mother of God, said daily, is most important to procure the intercession and protection of the Most Holy Virgin Mary.

I am just surprised that someone would even make this an issue - given the prominence this prayer has in the lives of those following the spirituality of St Seraphim of Sarov - which includes very many people!

Alex

I believe that the Rosary is no more a "Latin" devotion anymore, than the Christmas Tree is a "German" tradition that no one dare copy!
Most Roman Catholic Churches don't ever pray the rosary in a group in church anyway, as many of our churches do, so we have taken the rosaryaway from them, and have taken it a step further.

Not only that, but last time I checked, we are simply reciting the words in the Gospel, of the Angel Gabriele, and repeating those words in repetition, which is very "Eastern."

Why, even the Pope added another mystery (which is very Eastern oriented) to the rosary, and we are, last time I checked, part of the Universal Church, which doesn't mean we are a "ghetto unto ourselves" accepting nothing of value that the Romans or anyone else does for that matter. Like good Byzantines, we take something from someone else and make it even better.

Should we decry Roman Catholic Churches putting Icons in their churches accusing them as becoming "Byzantinized?"

Should we issue a cease and desist order to the Roman Catholic Churches that bless Easter Baskets, because it's "our" tradition, and not theirs?

And how about those copycat Romans having the nerve to have confession face to face as is our tradition?

But as far as the Rosary is concerned, it is a devotion that someone in the church can be the leader of, and it keeps people quiet as they enter the church for the 20 minutes before Liturgy begins. Yes you can have Matins, if you have a Deacon to assist, or if the priest doesn't have confessions prior to Liturgy as I have, and I fondly remember the "Rosary Club" at the Cathedral of St. Michaels' in Passaic, at the 10:00 AM Liturgy chanting the rosary in Old Slavonic in a most prayerfully haunting way!

It was mystical, and magical, and hearing them every Sunday has a lasting effect on me, probably leading me to my subsequent vocation in a small way! They prayed so beautifully, that Mary had to be listening!

I also remember Fr. +Basil Kraynak, of blessed memory, at 2Am in the morning chanting the Rosary in Old Slavonic at the cottages at the Uniontown Pilgrimages.
Again, wonderfully haunting, and prayerful.

Perhaps, someone should start a thread about how the Roman Catholics copy us. Then we can decry the fall of their traditon because of it, just like we do ours, because of them!

So, who has an objection with something that is wonderfully prayerful, no matter "where" it came from?

Should we always worry more about the purity of the "source" of our Eastern prayer life, or rather the prayerfullness of what we have "embraced" from other traditions?
Heck, we even have rosary beads with three barred crosses attached to them!

If we should only look to retain what is alledgedly purely "Eastern," then
burn your "Western Influenced" Christmas Trees!
Fr. Michael Sopoliga

Amin to that!

How can anyone (be they from East, West, North or South) go wrong praying words from the Holy Gospel?

Dave

Father Michael wrote:

Father, bless!

I find the Rosary a beautiful prayer and meditation myself.

Yet, I also find our traditional prayer life something I long for too.

Should we not seek to restore either Matins or the Hours before Liturgy?

I find the Rosary a beautiful prayer and meditation myself.

Yet, I also find our traditional prayer life something I long for too.

Should we not seek to restore either Matins or the Hours before Liturgy? [/QB][/QUOTE]

Yes DT we should....
We took the Hours in seminary, all of them all otgether! It was quite a prayer marathon, especially at 7AM on Sundays!
All of our "devotions" are to be cherished.
It's just that a priest or deacon, for the most part, must facilitate them. The Rosary can be lead by ordinary people. Besides, many priests nowadays have two or three parishes to serve. They have enough to do getting to a church on time to hear any confessions, and celebrate Liturgy wouldn't you agree?
While the Akathist Hymn to the Mother of God is a beautiful prayer, it could perhaps be recited by the people as well. It could work, with alittle practice. I was even thinking of replacing the rosary on sundays in Lent with a portion of the Akathist prayer. But it's like anything, we are all creatures of habit, even in prayer. Breaking a habit is hard, and going "cold turkey" is well, "cold hearted."

The Rosary should not be pidgeon holed as a "Latin" prayer for "them" only. As Catholics, both "lungs" have something to offer and, might I add, share with one other.

We have no problem with huge icons hanging over the proceedings of the NCCB meetings, or other Latin Catholic events, and we applaud latin priests swinging kadillos like they were one of ours. But anything that smacks of having a Latin influence in our churches is anathama. Talk about a double standard.

Of course, we should make every effort to reintroduce Matins, and other Eastern services.
I just do not believe that where the rosary is concerned (chanted/recited aloud in our churches before services begin)simply to "cleanse ourselves of anything Latin", we should "throw out the baby with the bath water!"

God bless!
Fr.M

Bless, Fr. Michael!

Right on!

The Rosary or Psalter of the Mother of God is, first and foremost, a private rule of prayer, a "devotion" that is not, of course, part of the Horologion or public prayer of the Church - even though it can be and is prayed in church in public. It is also prayed in public in Russia as well.

St Louis de Montfort developed what I myself think is a very nice tradition when he had 15 "Korokhvy" made or church banners, each depicting one of the 15 mysteries.

As the people prayed each decade, someone stood in front with the banner depicting the mystery under consideration.

He himself believed that one should have a picture or "icon" of each mystery before one's eyes during the prayer.

The 15 banners was basically the sum total of the saint's possessions which he ordered distributed to various churches just before his repose in the Lord.

My only point is that for all those "super Orthodox in communion with Rome" who are forever finding symbols of identity and demarcation between the Eastern and Western churches - the rosary is simply one of those originally monastic rules of prayer that exists in both East and West.

Interestingly, the miraculous picture of Our Lady of the Rosary in Pompeii, Italy depicts the Mother of God giving white rosaries to Sts Dominic and Catherine.

Those were, in fact, not "bead rosaries" but white "prayer ropes" or knotted cord rosaries.

One Dominican priest once told me that all Dominicans originally had knotted cord rosaries or prayer ropes that they would wrap around their left wrists as part of their habit - exactly as Orthodox priests and monastics today do!

Kissing your right hand, I again implore your blessing,

Alex

It would seem to me that anything edifying for the spirit and nonheretical should be allowed to any type of Catholic. Why needlessly clamp down on their growth as Catholics?