www.byzcath.org Forums Mysteries: The Life of Worship Vespers, Matins & the Divine Liturgy The Revised Divine Liturgy Divine Liturgy subtle changes

This is my very first post, so pls be patient.
I have a question that I can't find an answer for.
I grew up in the Byzantine rite, went to catholic school, married, had my children chrismated. I stopped going to liturgy for over 15 years but came back and rejoined my parish. I've noticed changes to the liturgy. The biggest two, referring to Mary as Theotokis and standing through the entire liturgy. I was taught to kneel during the consecration and communion. I was never taught to call Mary Theotokis. I had to Google the meaning. There are also small variants in some prayers and the tones of hymns have dramatically changed. I thought I lost it until I found my old school liturgy book to confirm what I knew. Could someone pls be kind enough to answer my question? Sorry for the long post. Thank you.

Hi AnnaG. I am not the best person to answer your inquiry, although it appears no one else is.

Traditionally, kneeling was banned on Sundays, since some of the earliest days of the church (~325 AD). The reason is that kneeling is a penitential posture, and on Sundays we celebrate the resurrection and victory over sin and death. In early Christianity, kneeling on Sundays was seen as denying Christ's resurrection.

In Western Christianity (Roman Catholics), practices diverged over time (e.g., kneeling on Sundays and some other things). There's a bit of discussion here: https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbt...ly-church-canons-and-kneeling-on-sundays

Your parish's former practice was what's known as latinization, or replacing our authentic Eastern traditions with Western/Roman traditions. Especially since the Second Vatican Council (1960s), there has been a drive to remove latinizations and return to our traditions. Part of this standing. Some related discussion is here: https://www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/73680/a-question-about-latinizations

The different hymnal tunes is probably just a liturgical choice. For most parts of the Liturgy, there are options for which tune to use.

As for why your parish never used to use the title "Theotokos," I have no clue.

Let me know if you have more questions (and maybe someone else can help answer as well). I hope this helps

Christ is in our midst!!

AnnaG:

Welcome to the forum. We hope your time with us will be spiritually beneficial.

Bob
Moderator

It has been said, accurately, that "The Priest is the Typikon".

Which means that a Priest's personal preferences can, over time, become small "t" traditions. I know from personal experience on both sides of the rail/Iconostasis.

The burning question for me is: "If Mary was not referred to as Theotokos, what other title was used?"

Many of my older English language books just say Mother of God. Perhaps her parish did the same.

AnnaG,

Christ is Risen!

“Theotokos” is a Greek word that means “Birthgiver of God.” Our Church Slavonic translation is “Bohorodice.” Some of the very earliest translations used “Birthgiver of God” but this term was found to be inelegant, so most Greek Catholics started using the term “Mother of God.” It is not a literal translation, but it was perfectly understandable and allowed most English speakers to find that relationship with her. Others seemed to consider the use of the term “Mother of God” as a translation for “Theotokos” unacceptable. It seems they fall into two camps. Some consider the use of the term “Mother of God” to be unacceptable because it is a non-literal translation. Others simply think that using the Greek word “Theotokos” to be somehow more Eastern. There seems to be no consideration that Americans simply do not know this Greek word. No official reason was given for the change. And no education was given at all about the revisions to the Divine Liturgy.

Kneeling in the Christian East is more an act of penance than it is humility. In the Christian West it is more an act of humility than it is penance. So in the Roman Catholic Church they kneel on Sundays during the Eucharistic Prayer as an act of humility before God. But since in the Christian East kneeling was more an act of penance and Sundays were day on which we celebrate the resurrection, kneeling was not done since it was a time to replace penance with joy. Byzantine Catholics were caught between both worlds and adopted kneeling as a sign of humility. Today the trend is towards standing on Sundays. miloslav_jc provided some good links to read.

The changes to the music are much more complicated to explain. The revised texts for the Divine Liturgy meant new music books. A cantor from Philadelphia (now deceased) updated the existing settings from 1965 that you probably remember just enough to accommodate the revised texts, but he left any hymn where the texts did not change alone. However, the bishops (through the seminary) instead chose to hire someone to “restore” them to a standard from 1906. The problem with this is that Ruthenians in the United States brought with them slightly different melodies that became the norm here in our parishes. And the process for this new setting of liturgy text placed the preservation of the 1906 melodies over modern American English accentuation. Plus, if you compare any two pieces (from the 1965 and 2007 settings) where the melody and text have not changed, you can find change for change’s sake. This has resulted in clunky music that is no longer as fun to sing. The 2007 settings come across as if English is not our native language. That's really a shame.

TR