www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Reclaiming the Ancient Traditions

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory forever!
Slava Isusu Christu! Slava na viki!

I am a Byzantine Catholic student living in Pennsylvania, and I plan to attend Sts. Cyril and Methodius Seminary in a few years. I feel very strongly that ancient traditions of the Eastern Catholic Churches such as priests being married and wearing beards, Church Slavonic in the Divine Services, etc., should be reclaimed by the Byzantine Catholic Churches in the United States. Some of these were lost during the period of forced Latinization, and others were lost as the Byzantine Church became more 'Americanized'. I am a true 'traditionalist', and feel that more Slavonic should be used for services, and, in parishes that have priests who are willing to provide them, the matins and vespers services should be served, especially on Sat/Sun and the feast days. In this way, we can be exposed to the more 'traditional' practices of our Holy Church, and also recognize our heritage (even for those of us, like myself, who have not been born Byzantine Catholic, but have changed rites or have started attending Eastern Catholic church services). Theodosy, servant of God, unworthy sinner.

The true Eastern tradition is not to have a foreign language in the service. The Gospel and the Liturgy is not just for "our people" or for those who want an esoteric liturgical experience. It's for the people who live next door to us and who we meet in our daily lives.

Actually, the concept of keeping the Liturgy (or parts thereof) in a non-venacular tongue is another form of latinization. When Byzantine Catholics first started having the Liturgy in the venacular in this country (pre-Vatican II) there were some in the Roman Church who resented it. Instructions were actually received from Rome (this for the Melkite parish in Birmingham, Alabama) to go back to a non-venacular tongue. Fortunately, this did not last long.

The Eastern practice is to establish venacular services. This is the true Eastern tradition. The Church is not a social club for "our people." It's for living and sharing the gospel with all--which includes our neighbor too.

I do like the idea of married priests. As to them wearing beards...perhaps we should let the matushka have some input on that?

Dave Ignatius DTBrown@aol.com


[This message has been edited by DTBrown (edited 11-24-1999).]

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory forever!
Slava Isusu Christu! Slava na viki!

I understand the Byzantine tradition of using the 'language of the people', but I was saying that I feel that we are betraying our heritage by losing the 'ritual' language. I think that parishes should have more use of Slavonic, Greek, Arabic, etc. I do not feel that this promotes disunity in any way, just that it reflects on our particular church's history and background. I feel that there should be services in the ancient languages available in parishes for those who might like to attend one. As far as beards, the canon laws of the Byzantine Catholic Church specifically state that priests, whether celibate or married, are to wear beards. While in America this is not forced in any way, in Europe or the Middle East it is extremely unlikely to see a presbyter without a beard. The tradition of wearing beards extends back to the teaching that man is created in the image of God, and therefore man should wear a beard because God has given the man the ability to grow one. Among the Old Believers, for example, if a man refuses to grow a beard and keep it, he will be refused the sacraments. Now, this may seem a little extreme, but I feel that it is entirely justified. My area of knowledge of Eastern church history is primarily centered on Russia, as I am a fluent Russian speaker, and I know that this tradition of wearing beards was deemed proper for all the faithful, clergy and laymen alike, by the great Church Council of 1551, known as 'Stoglav', or '100 Chapters', from the 100 Chapters of Canon Law that were edited or placed. Among these is the decree that a man is to wear a beard. At that time, to shave was punishable by excommunication. Of course today, that is not the case, but the point is still there. And for a priest to willingly not wear a beard (there is really no excuse that I can think of), I feel is a sin. With all due respect, sir, the matushka really shouldn't be the deciding factor if her husband, a presbyter of the Eastern Church, wears a beard. The church councils anathemized those who would shave their beards, and it remains a venerable practice today. I believe the term is that it is 'highly encouraged' that a priest or layman wear a beard, except if the layman's job requires him to be clean-shaven (police officer, military, etc.) My parish priest has a beard to his waist and hair almost that long, and he has commended me for my wearing of a traditional, untrimmed beard. As I plan to study for the Holy Priesthood, to me it is not an option whether I wear a beard. If I had a girlfriend who didn't approve of my beard, she wouldn't be my girlfriend much longer. Theodosy, unworthy sinner, servant of God. P.S. Happy Thanksgiving and God Bless You!

Dear Brother in the Lord, Theodosy:
My dear friend Vladyka Judson does not wear a beard. Is he sinning?
I really wish to be charitable and understanding in all this but this statement that a cleric not wearing a beard is a sin because God gave him the ability to grow one is absolutely silly.
It is my fervent prayer that you are as zealous in your quest for holiness in yourself as you seem to be in judging others.
Maybe you should standup and correct the grooming practices of Metropolitan Judson and members of his clergy!
a sinful monk, Silouan

[This message has been edited by Silouan (edited 11-25-1999).]

Theodosy,

I am so glad to hear of your love for our Byzantine Catholic faith! I too was not born Byzantine Catholic, but have found my true spiritual home within its arms.

I am currently growing a beard, although trimmed, in an effort to represent Eastern Tradition. My desire is to serve Jesus' Church as a Deacon, as this particular liturgical role inspires my heart. Nonetheless, I do feel that we risk going to far in insisting that all others follow our furry-faced lead. I would certainly encourage our clergy to restore the custom of wearing facial hair, but not at the risk of condemning them. I don't imagine that you would condemn them either for this.

In the quest for restoring our traditions, I think that requiring our clergy to wear facial hair falls near the bottom of the list. First of all, I would invest far more time and energy into putting Icon Screens in all of our church buildings.

Nevertheless, I truly commend you for your enthusiasm and love for Jesus' Byzantine Catholic Church. Please keep up your learning and studying. This message board, I have found, is one of the best places to grow in my understanding of Eastern Catholicism.

Yours in Christ,

Anthony Dragani

I think that I may have worded my statment wrong about beards, and I humbly ask your forgiveness for any misjudgement. What I was trying to say was that I really feel that priests should wear beards, not that if they didn't they should be excommunicated. I apologize again for my wrong use of words. I shall make great effort that it doesn't happen again. Theodosy, humble sinner and servant of God.

Also, I truly meant no disrespect to anyone, especially Vladyka Judson or the other hierarchs. Please forgive me. Theodosy, repentant sinner.

Dear brother in the Lord, Theodosy,
It is obvious to me that you dearly love our Holy Byzantine Catholic Church and seek to preserve all the holy traditions. I certainly can't fault that. It is wonderful that you love Her so much. If only all of us would love Her with the passion and zeal that She deserves! I am now an old monk (severely crippled at that) and I remember many years ago the passion I had for our Church. With God's grace I still have that passion, otherwise I would not participate on this forum or be a monk. Be zealous! Yes! The Prophet Elijah said :"With zeal am I zealous for the Lord God of hosts"! Have the very thirst of Christ Himself for your own growth in holiness and in those you encounter in everyday life. Pray for everyone. Exclude no one. Don't sweat the small stuff! One more thought: Pick up "The Story of a Soul", the autobiography of St. Therese of Lisieux. If you have already read it, read it again, maybe for this Advent Season. All is always forgiven! Your love for the Church is a great gift from the Founder of the Church. Just channel it in love. Blessings to you always! Unworthy monk, Silouan

Dear Theodosy,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

How nice to hear real enthusiasm for our Church, and a deep love of our traditions. I hope you never loose your zeal and passion.

If I may be forgiven a lighter observation... Unlike so many of our traditions (icon screens etc. etc.) which will cost money to restore, even lots of money, growing the beard actually saves a few coins!

Some traditions are both correct and convenient.

Elias, monk

Theodosy said, "The tradition of wearing beards extends back to the teaching that man is created in the image of God, and therefore man should wear a beard because God has given the man the ability to grow one." Does that mean because I am a woman and cannot grow a beard, I was not made in the image of God?

No, of course not. As I said, it is an ancient idea, from before any real equality for men and women. All are made in the image of God!
Theodosy, servant of God.

Theodocy,

What about the priest's wife? Doesn't she have a say in whether she likes a beard or not?

Elias

Glory to Jesus Christ! Glory forever!
Slava Isusu Christu! Slava na viki!

Why should the matushka have a say in whether her husband wears a beard. I feel that the presbyter should decide to wear a beard (or not) based on one thing: does he want to follow the teachings of the church councils and the example of the Fathers of the Church, priests, and other pious Eastern Christians throughout the ages, or not? If he does, then he should wear the beard. If not, then I would be very interested in his reason why he doesn't wear a beard. As for the matushka, she should either accept that her husband is going to be a priest of the Eastern Church, and that the priests of the Eastern Church are SUPPOSED to wear beards, or she should re-consider why she wants to get married to him in the first place. For looks, or for love? If they are already married and he is already ordained, then he should be growing his beard, to follow the ancient tradition. Also, as mentioned by someone above, yes, putting the iconostas into churches should also be a priority, as well as offering more Divine Services (matins, vespers, hours, etc.) for the faithful who want to attend. This idea of "church only on Sundays and feasts" may be really part of the reason that church attendance is lower in America. For example, in the former Soviet republics, more and more young people, with possibly no background in religion at all, are going to church EVERY TIME THEY CAN. Why is this? Religion was basically banned for over 70 years, and now, with freedom of worship, the churches are packed. Maybe we in America can learn something from this. People need religion, and they need the option of services at times other than just Sunday morning Divine Liturgy. Howabout adding Great Vespers on Saturday evenings, and Orthros (matins) on Sunday morning with the Hours before Divine Liturgy? Theodosy, servant of God, future monk.

Hey, if you want to go far enough back, the Desert Fathers didn't hold much with bathing, either.....

Why should the matushka have input about her husband's beard? Because she's got to live with the guy! And he was her husband before he was a priest. I suspect that a man who gave no consideration at all to his wife's preferences would likely not be a particularly compassionate priest, either. Mind you, it's a two-way street. Marriage is a partnership, and an opportunity for mutual consideration & service. And compromise. What about a man who comes "late" to the priesthood after many years of marriage?

BTW, some of us like furry men. I've seen my husband's face once in 16 years. He looks much better with fur. (And he doesn't scratch me no matter what time of day he kisses me. He is not a priest, nor does he play one on TV.)

Keep in mind also that some guys just don't have the genetics to grow anything approaching a respectable beard. I guess Native Americans & Japanese can forget about the validity of any vocations they might have...

On another topic - I have great respect for the rich liturgical and musical heritage of the Church Slavonic tradition, but:

We have a 1000 year tradition of Liturgy in the vernacular

We are in America to stay

The significant catechetical value of the Liturgy is lost if the congregation
doesn't have a clue what they are singing. There is nothing inherently
more holy about any one language over another (though I know some Irish folks
who would disagree )

I'm a convert, too. I grew up worshiping in a
language I didn't fully understand. Now I'm in a church where we have two Liturgies a month in another language I don't fully understand. At least when I was growing up, they made a stab at getting us to understand the language. Please pardon my vehemence, but do you wanna start forcing our kids to go to "Slavonic School" like we were forced to go to Hebrew School two nights a week for YEARS?
It was "Our Heritage," and By God, it was required.

Maybe it isn't important for us to be able to unite the mind, the heart and the body in prayer?

Is the Slavonic language the most important thing? Mebbe I missed something, but I thought the most important thing was faith, and love of God. We have a hard enough time getting enough class time to teach that.

My $.02


Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Sharon,

Well said! I serve a Melkite-Greek parish where the first and third Sundays the Liturgy is primarily English while the others are primarily Arabic. Many of the young people do not understand Arabic well enough to participate in the Liturgy (which is why the English Liturgies are offered). And, this poor deacon has enough trouble with English and Greek, let alone Arabic, although I am learning a little Arabic so I can survive -- and because it's expected that I'll use some in the Liturgy. Right now, with the exception of the "Lord, have mercy" in English, Greek and Arabic I'm pretty muc at a loss.

But, as the Arabs are fond of saying, Ins'allah -- God willing -- I'll learn enough to get by.

Fr. Deacon Edward