www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Reclaiming the Ancient Traditions

Hello all,

First off, this being my very first contribution, let me say how thrilled I am to have found this site. I was born into a Melkite Catholic family from Lebanon, and still remember fondly the services I used to attend at the wonderful "Deir el-shir" in the hills east of Beirut. The Monastery was built around 1744, not long after our rite was (re)established.

Regarding the points raised in this discussion, believe it or not, I do rather enjoy those parts of the service in Greek (even though I can barely make out their meaning). I feel something is lost when their translations (be that in English or Arabic) are used instead -- a trend seemingly on the rise. Unfortunately, having to cater to a parish made up of older "traditionalists" who want their services in Arabic/Greek, and their children, often born this side of the atlantic and who only understand English, the poor priests in our church here end up going through two readings of the epistles/bible and sometimes botch a hymn by saying one of its verses in one language and the next in another, and the third in yet another.

You know you're getting old when you suddenly realize you're siding with the "traditionalists" :-)

When I visited Lebanon last summer, I videotaped a mass celebrated at the newly restored church of deir el-shir. I play that tape on sundays very often, whenever I can't make it to church, to get a dose of "that old feeling"!

As to the subject of beards, they do project an image of added piety, don't they? :-)

Best Regards

John

If we follow the logic that men should be required to wear beards, on the theory that God gave them the capacity to grow one, shouldn't women be forbidden to shave their legs and armpits, on the theory that God gave them the capacity to grow hair in those places?

I know that this sounds foolish, but that seems like the next logical step. I can't find a passage anywhere in the Catechism of the Catholic Church that requires any priest, Eastern, or Western, to wear their hair in any particular fashion. I would like to see a citation in Canon law, if such a mandate exists.

My Father wears a beard. However, I, as a member of the military, cannot. I would like to believe that I can be reverant without one.

Glory be to Jesus Christ!

At our church, the liturgies are mostly sung in English, but every once in awhile a Slavic song is sung or Father will sing part of the liturgy in Slavonic. I think it's nice to weave the Slavonic in like that. I am learning without being lost. It also helps that the English and Slavonic are side by side in the liturgy book, so you can follow along more easily and not miss the meaning.

Your sister in Christ,

Marya

Doxa Theo!

In my Melkite parish we always have the Divine Liturgy in both Arabic and English. We, too, have the problem of children who do not speak Arabic (not to mention a deacon who doesn't speak much Arabic!) so we solve the problem by having the Liturgy on the 1st and 3rd Sundays of the month primarily in English while the other Sundays are primarily in Arabic. The Epistle is proclaimed in the primary language of the day while the Gospel is always chanted in English and proclaimed/chanted in Arabic.

Of course, the Trisagion is done in English, Arabic and Greek as are the triple "Lord have mercy" petitions. Most people have no problem on the second or third visit picking up the Arabic for the Kyrie and even knowing what it means, however the Trisagion is harder to pick up.

Fr. Deacon Edward

10 years ago, when I was 21 and had long hair and a beard, strangers would despise me and look down at me. Orthodox bishops have commented about similar treatment while visiting America.I think there was an inherent value in being diliked without proper cause,like a Samaritian, in that it encouraged a sympathy for outcasts, much like the perfect example of Christ.

Nic,

My husband has long hair and a beard. He also tends to wear black (tee shirts, sweat pants, etc.) During the Uniontown pilgrimage he's been addressed as "Father" more than once.

It gets even better - I've been known to cover my head. Folks tend to assume I'm Amish, Mennonite.... Who let that Amish woman
cantor???????


Cheers,

Sharon Mech, SFO
Cantor & sinner
sharon@cmhc.com

Sharon Mech,
Has your husband encountered hostility from strangers who wrongly assume he is making some counter-culture 60s or outlaw biker statement? (In a sense, being a Byzantine Christian is counter - culture in America)

[This message has been edited by Nic (edited 02-03-2000).]

I learned a lot from this discussion, and wanted to add a few thoughts.

Where I was able to go to the Byzantine church, they had their services partly in OCS and partly in English. The parts of the Liturgy in each language changed each week, so over the course of a certain amount of time we heard the entire Liturgy in OCS. The missals had two columns, one for each langauge. I picked up on how to pronounce things sort of quickly (enough to follow along, but not necessarily find my place if I lost it!), but I was surprised at how familiar the Our Father sounded in OCS--two years later!

I think that this is a good way to go for a parish that has people who are accustomed to OCS. Several members of that parish were from the Carpathians.

The feeling of 2nd- and 3rd-generation people towards the original language will differ a great deal from that of people encountering it through the Liturgy, but I think that they could be reconciled to a mixture for the sake of those they love.

I had noticed a language "barrier" at different parishes. I have been considering suggesting a Latin Mass at least once a month because now we have those who attend the Mass in Spanish, and those who attend in English--we never meet! I can really understand why the Western Church had the Latin Mass for all those centuries. (I currently live too far from the Byzantine Church to attend)

Anyway, is it crazy of me to consider learning OCS, and if not, can anyone suggest a good book?