www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Why is communion with Rome important?

I think of the occasional Orthodox mission that meets regularly in a Catholic church, and know that there is probably more going on there than simply use of a convenient space. The bonds of friendship and cooperation of people at the local level will hopefully lead to greater trust and acceptance, and help push some of the hierarchical politics aside. That's worth some prayer time, don't you think?

Thanks everyone for your insight. I really do struggle with this issue. Honestly, I don't think I can accept papal supremacy as it is currently understood in the latin Church. But on the other hand, I do believe communion with Rome is important. It's hard for me to explain why it's important. It seems to add some unity to the Church.

My delimma is that I feel that my views might place me outside of the communion with Rome. It's a difficult issue. And I think that Eastern Catholics, better than anyone, understand that tension between trying to be what the Church used to be and maintaining communion with Rome despite the fact that Rome has 'evolved' in its understanding of its primacy.

I must confess that I have been told, in no uncertain terms, that my view of the papacy is not Catholic. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a spiritual no-man's land, in that I feel like I was baptized and confirmed so so don't want to 'lie' by being re-christmated or God forbid re-baptized to become Orthodox, but on the other hand, not accepting the montanist view of the papacy. I see that many Eastern Catholics share my limited view of the papacy which gives me hope that I can find a home here.

But it's frustrating to be told by your fellow Catholics that you're a heretic. It's also very frustrating for me to hear Roman Catholics say the Orthodox are outside of the Church. It's hard to hear RCs insist that the "Roman Catholic Church" is the only Church founded by God.

Jennifer, you should gently remind them of the teaching of their own church from Vatican II, Orientale Lumen, Ut Unum Sint, and Slavorum Apostoli. I also have dealt with this kind of nonsense most of my life. Unitatis Redintegratio also has very strong language about the position of the Orthodox as part of the Apostolic Church.

In a recent discussion about this very topic with an RC, he finally concluded that the pope was a heretic for refusing to try to convert the Orthodox.

The delimma is whether to educate the RCs or to leave them alone. My observation is that it's very troubling to them to hear about things like the Balamand Agreement. I think it stems from all of the problems in the latin Church.

Honestly, I think given the many problems in the latin Church today, it's almost better for them to 'live in ignorance,' so to speak, about the new approach to the Orthodox.

Let's be honest here, some of the responses here (that I agree with, btw) would be greeted with tremendous hostility by the typical conservative RC.

Dear Jennifer,

That all depends on your definition of a "conservative" Roman Catholic.

Bill

Alex- the shield from error exists only for the Pope, and the decisions of Councils that he recognizes. The situation you describe is inevitable, given the age we live in and the freedom of the human will.
Matthew- I know there are old canons against contraception; there are also old [pre-1928] Protestant denunciations against that sin. However, pace Alex, the mainstream Orthodox are permissive about contraception, though their writings have all the prerequisite Scripture quotes and hand-wringing before they pronounce its acceptance. Of course the Orthodox believe in chastity; so, on paper, do the Episcopalians, for whom chaste behavior includes buggery. I am certainly not equating the Orthodox with those scoundrels, only making a point. When Christian bodies depart from Apostolic tradition they never say so directly; it is always made to seem in continuity with the tradition.

I wouldn't throw out numbers altogether. Our Lord told the apostles to "go therefore and make disciples of all the nations" (Matt 28:19a). I think "all" is a pretty big number.

Christ is our peace,

Paul

Dear Paromer,

This only proves that the Catholic Church, being part and parcel of Western society, has the structural capacity of contributing to societies needs. Thus, we should thank them for this ability.

It also proves, that our Lord made societies as well as people 'different'. Each should be recognized for the gifts they contribute for the benefit of our souls, and His glory.

Zenovia

Zenovia,

You say that so well.

St. Augustine said, "Unity in necessary things, liberty in doubtful things, and in all things charity."

Christ is our peace.

Paul

Dear Jennifer,

Glory to Jesus Christ!

I have been officially Roman Catholic all my 30 years, a practicing Catholic for the last six and a half years, and an unofficial Byzantine Riter for almost two years. I have felt strongly tempted to go Orthodox, especially when I see the stupidity and religious relativism that's unofficially being taught by our so-called spiritual leaders.

I have resisted the temptation to leave the Catholic Church because St. Peter was given a special primacy.

In Matthew's Gospel, all of the Apostles (the form of "you" in this verse is plural) were given the authority to "bind and loose" (to declare something lawful or unlawful; really, a better translation would be "open" and "shut."

But only Peter was given the "keys" (Jesus uses the singular form of "you", showing that He was addressing only Peter). The "keys", if you look at Isaiah 22:22, signifies tremendous authority; in short, Christ is making Peter His "Prime Minister."

Think about it: if all bishops (successors of the Apostles) can "open" and "close", but only Peter has the KEYS, what does that say? Seems to me that the bishops of the Church need to be in communion with that Bishop who holds the keys if they are to be able to "open" and "shut."

Okay, that's my theological argument. Now for my historical argument:

When serious heresies sprung up in the East (especially regarding Christ's divinity), it was to the Pope of Rome that the Eastern Church turned for help, and it was thanks to his help that the heresies didn't destroy the Church.

Today, sad to say, the Eastern Orthodox Churches allow divorce and have even caved in on the sin of artificial contraception. The Catholic Church is the ONLY Church which has remained faithful to ALL of the teachings of Christ, regardless of what the bishops and priests personally say or do.

Has the authority of the Pope been abused? Certainly. Have popes done scandalous things? Absolutely. But because his authority is abused doesn't make it illegitimate.

The idea of a totally concilliar Church, with all bishops being equal, has never made much sense to me, and seems to be a recipe for division... like a body without a head. There is really nothing keeping Eastern Orthodox churches in communion with each other.

For the above reasons, I remain in communion with the Catholic Church and the successor of St. Peter.


- Karen

But our faith keeps us in communion with each other. Granted we are a cantankerous lot with plenty of arguments between us to last a lifetime but with a very exception, there is a unity of faith within the Orthodox Church.

This should not be taken as an attack on the Catholic Church but there is a sizable minority within it (especially in the "First" world which seems to challenge long-held assumptions and beliefs of the church (we haven't had any problems with women wishing to becomes priests, for example but who knows what the future bodes...)

Anton

You're NOT wrong. The U.S. "episcopate", by and large is about as "Catholic" as the Arian bishops were............

Dear Friends,

I think we need to be careful about suggesting that the Roman Church is true because it has a higher standard of morality than anyone else.

I don't see that as part of the argument for a Petrine Primacy in this case.

What Orthodox Patriarch ever spoke in favour of abortion, birth control etc?

And yes, Rome is against artificial birth control, abortion and celibate priests abusing children . . .

I think this forum is the only place where I've come across Latin Catholics who affirm the teaching against artificial birth control.

And if we are saying that those Latin Catholics who flaunt the Church's law on these issues are excommunicated, then the Latin Church is a small entity indeed.

Again, the point is that the Orthodox Church does NOT deny the Petrine Primacy.

It is because it considers Rome to be cut off from the true Church that Rome has forfeited its rights to the Primacy.

When that is healed, the Primacy can be restored throughout the entire Church.

Eastern Catholics believe that the teachings of Rome do not contradict what they believe the ancient teachings of the Church express and that, therefore, there is no reason to continue to maintain the schism.

Alex

I highly agree with my friend and tv celebrity Alex on this one, we must be cautious with the labeling the Church at Rome the"True Church".

For there is much Truth in the East & West, just expressed a might different.

My 2 zolties worth,
james, often called a "Roaming Traditional Catholic " , stuck on the fence .