The Byzantine Forum
Newest Members
everynameitryistak, DavidLopes, Anatoly99, PoboznyNeil, Hammerz75
6,188 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
1 members (Roman), 639 guests, and 93 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Photos
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
St. Sharbel Maronite Mission El Paso
by orthodoxsinner2, September 30
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
Holy Saturday from Kirkland Lake
by Veronica.H, April 24
Byzantine Catholic Outreach of Iowa
Exterior of Holy Angels Byzantine Catholic Parish
Church of St Cyril of Turau & All Patron Saints of Belarus
Forum Statistics
Forums26
Topics35,538
Posts417,745
Members6,188
Most Online4,112
Mar 25th, 2025
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
I have a little green paperback volume that is copyright 1966 and put out by Byzantine Seminary Press which contains a translation of the Divine Liturgy. The text is quite complete and has the Little Litanies and other litanies but not the Beatitudes.

Could someone tell me more about this text? Was it ever used in Byzantine Catholic parishes? Also, is the text of this translation online anywhere?

Thanks!

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674
Member
Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 674
Quote
Originally posted by DTBrown:
I have a little green paperback volume that is copyright 1966 and put out by Byzantine Seminary Press which contains a translation of the Divine Liturgy. The text is quite complete and has the Little Litanies and other litanies but not the Beatitudes.

Could someone tell me more about this text? Was it ever used in Byzantine Catholic parishes? Also, is the text of this translation online anywhere?

Thanks!
That is the text now in use in the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, and the text that will be replaced by the 'revised' liturgy.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
John
Member
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
The little green �The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom� remains a staple among Byzantine-Ruthenian Catholics (I don�t know if it is still available). Published by the Byzantine Seminary Press in 1966 it is about 4� x 6� in size and 166 pages in length. It contains the full English language text (no Slavonic) of the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, the eight tones, the changeable texts for feast days (the Pascha cycle and the fixed feasts), a few special intention type liturgies, the Sacrament of Reconciliation and the Sunday and feast day lectionary (Scriptural references, not the texts).

It was the �Pew Book� in many parishes but was eventually replaced by the 1979 (and later edition) of the Levkulic Pew Book. [The Levkulic Pew Book did edit many of the troparia slightly so the two books were not compatible for �changeable texts�.]

I have never done a word for word comparison with the 1964 Liturgicon but I do remember many times when concelebrating priests would use this book.

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
S
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
Quote
Originally posted by Administrator:

It was the �Pew Book� in many parishes but was eventually replaced by the 1979 (and later edition) of the Levkulic Pew Book. [The Levkulic Pew Book did edit many of the troparia slightly so the two books were not compatible for �changeable texts�.]

A honest question, then: What was the basis for the changes to the troparia texts in Levkulic particularly tone 5 and 6 and other particular days from the 1966 text?.

For eaxample: The Paschal Third antiphon is also worded differently. Interestingly, the 1966 book states the kontakion for the Sunday of the man born blind as tone 4, and Levkulic indicates tone 5, (a typo or a defined change?). Ascencion also has a different translation of the second antiphon than the 1966 text.

My point being that if we are upset over changes being done now, there were already changes introduced in the 1978 Levkulic book (which has been used by many parishes for the last 25+ years) from the texts of the 1966 green book.

again, my twopence opinion

Steve

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
Member
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,968
I just want to clarify:

Does the 1966 translation still have an official status in the Metropolia? I believe Nick said it still is official in Pittsburgh.

Was it supplanted by the Levkulic pew books or was that just another edition?

Was the 1966 text ever a norm in Byzantine Catholic parishes? Or did it serve as a reference text which was adapted to local use? I imagine most parishes omitted many of the litanies?

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
S
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
DTBrown

I know that my copy (1966 green book) was from my childhood and was used to some extent, particularly for catechesis-since we primarily used the grey book, in our parish until the Levkulic books came out in '78.

Since my parish still had an active choir, and slavonic liturgies in those years, specific translation usages are difficult for me to identify. With each change of pastor or bishop, it seemed there was also a some change in the liturgy, ie litanies that weren't taken before added, others dropped, formerly silent prayers now taken aloud etc. I grew up seeing/experiencing the Liturgy as being somewhat dynamic which makes it all the more fascinating to me as an adult and cantor.

Steve

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
John
Member
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
Steve,

I don�t know the basis for the changes. Most seem to be simple attempts to improve grammar. There are also a few places were the Levkulic book introduces what seems to be typos. I�d have to do a comparison to produce a list but your example of the Kontakion for Pascha 6 � Sunday of the Man Born Blind is a good one. Our other books (including the Velikij Sbornik) give tone 4 for this Kontakion while the Levkulic book gives tone 5. Since I once produced a booklet that actually listed tone 9 I am very forgiving about these sort of typos (but they should be corrected). {And, by the way, the prokimenon listed as tone 9 did provide the music in tone 8 so all was not lost.)

Another easy example of change from 1966 green to 1978 Levkulic is the Troparion for Thomas Sunday. The grammar and word order changes and one very long sentences is broken into two. There are many minor differences between the 1966 green book and the Levkulic books, even in the text of the Divine Liturgy itself.

In the middle 1990s there were parishes that did not use the Levkulic Pew Book (St. Nicholas in Old Forge, PA had a nice supply of the green books to fill the pews and stuck with them). [It was not easy to switch back and forth between texts when chanting the liturgy at different parishes.] I would not be surprised to find that it was still in use in many places.

I agree with much of your point about changes between 1966 and 1978. I don�t speak for anyone but myself, but I support changes that have been demonstrated to be notably superior translations (as in �one in essence� and �that we may receive the King�) and which are minor (i.e., not an equivalent of changing the words to the Lord�s Prayer or �Silent Night�). I have been consistent in stating this. What I object to is unnecessary change, change that does not make the test more faithful to the original or correct erroneous grammar. Changes like �loves us all� instead of �loves mankind� are simply inaccurate. All of the changes in rubrics that distance the liturgy from the 1941 standard are unnecessary. None of these rubrical changes support unity in the Church.

Admin biggrin

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
John
Member
John
Member
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 6,772
Likes: 31
Dave asked: Does the 1966 translation still have an official status in the Metropolia? I believe Nick said it still is official in Pittsburgh.

Technically, probably yes. The 1966 edition has an imprimatur. It has not been withdrawn to my knowledge.

Dave asked: Was it supplanted by the Levkulic pew books or was that just another edition?

I�m not sure that it was intended to be supplanted by the Levkulic edition (others will certainly know more than I on this). The Levkulic edition was more popular because it was a Slavonic / English edition. It remained popular because it was available (and the little green book is probably long out of print).

Dave asked: Was the 1966 text ever a norm in Byzantine Catholic parishes? Or did it serve as a reference text which was adapted to local use? I imagine most parishes omitted many of the litanies?

Yes, the 1966 green book was the norm in many if not most Byzantine Catholic (Ruthenian) parishes. It was the standard book given to children for many years (although it was eventually replaced by the �Byzantine Book of Prayer� published in 1976, which contains even more differences but also has an imprimatur and was used in some places). And yes, most parishes omitted many of the litanies. But we can hope for some future time when they are standard in almost every parish!

Admin biggrin

Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
S
Cantor
Member
Cantor
Member
S Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 646
Likes: 1
I posted the discrepancy (Re: the kontakion of the Man Born Blind) because it is apparently supposed to be in tone 4 rather than tone 5, though the tone 5 usage has been common since Levkulic ('78). I know....it seems so trivial, however it underscores how there have been subtle changes introduced inadvertantly through the years.

Steve

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
I
Member
Member
I Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 3,517
Dear Steve, Don't discount seeming trivialities! What might seem pointless to you and me right now could turn out to be quite significant - it's been known to happen! Besides, trivialities are often crucial elements in the ludic dimension of liturgy.

Incognitus


Moderated by  theophan 

Link Copied to Clipboard
The Byzantine Forum provides message boards for discussions focusing on Eastern Christianity (though discussions of other topics are welcome). The views expressed herein are those of the participants and may or may not reflect the teachings of the Byzantine Catholic or any other Church. The Byzantine Forum and the www.byzcath.org site exist to help build up the Church but are unofficial, have no connection with any Church entity, and should not be looked to as a source for official information for any Church. All posts become property of byzcath.org. Contents copyright - 1996-2024 (Forum 1998-2024). All rights reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0