www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Priest Blessing Question

In my church (Greek Catholic) during Divine Liturgy, when the priest blesses the people, everyone makes the sign of the Cross. I seem to recall reading somewhere on this forum, a reference to a quote by Bp Kallistos Ware, that the people should not do this, for a reason I cannot remember.

Can anyone enlighten me?

ps I am going away for a week, so forgive me if I don't jump in to the conversation.

Thanks to all

Hoping that no one thinks otherwise, I am just curious about differences in customs....

Karen, this is a matter of local custom. Even amongst some Orthodox, they cross themselves when the priest blesses with the hand during the Divine Liturgy or other services.

There are various descriptions from Bishop Kallistos and others why it is not proper to cross yourself when the priest blesses to Archbishop Raya's discussion of why it is proper to cross yourself. This of course only applies to blessings of the priest during the Liturgy or other services. Both ways are widely used.

If receiving a "personal" blessing from the priest, however, you do not cross yourself but bow to the priest, place your right hand over the left in the form of a cross, and let the priest bless you and place his hand on your crossed hands. You then kiss his hand. This is how you would normally greet a priest and receive his blessing.

Thank you, Diak, for explaining it so well. Yes, this is for blessings within the Liturgy. I prefer to sign myself when blessed during the Divine Liturgy, to me it is like taking the priest's blessing into myself.

Again, thank you for your explanation.

Dear Karen,

Diak's explanation has also been cited to me regarding "signing" (as in making the sign of the cross) in the Latin rite. One of our former abbots, who is an authority on liturgy, told me that it is proper to make the sign of the cross at the beginning of the Mass w/ the priest, but not at the end - when he gives his blessing.

He likens this to a kind of "semi-Pelagianism" that thinks that a blessing won't "take" unless we do something to "help" it along - i.e. cross ourselves. He also sees this occuring when some Roman Catholics receive communion.

I must admit, I have never heard of this. For me, I found meaning in making the three signs during Mass (beginning, communion, end) and was taught this by my parents. When attending the Divine Liturgy of the Eastern churches, I have enjoyed and been intrigued by the numerous times the faithful cross themselves.

PAX

From what I've observed in Eastern Orthodox parishes and seminaries, people now tend to make the sign of the cross only at the ends of prayers, especially the consecratory prayers, or when God is mentioned in Trinity: "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit." Other times to make the sign of the cross would be toward the end of the Creed when the Holy Spirit is defined and when the Church is defined.

Blessings are usually responded to with a bow.

In Christ,
Andrew

Dear Friends,

In the Old Rite, there are the "seven bow" entrance and departure prayers - but eight if you count the final prayer.

But if a priest is with us and says the prayer, blessing us, we do not cross ourselves.

So the logic is this.

When a priest blesses us during the Liturgy, it is proper to bow and receive it.

To make the Sign of the Cross during such a blessing is to make it twice, in fact, over ourselves, since the Priest is doing it first.

And we always defer to the blessing of the Priest.

There are plenty of opportunities to make the Sign of the Cross during the Liturgy! And we do make it, ideally, at each "Lord have mercy" and "Grant this O Lord."

I'm so happy that I've come to an amicable resolution with the Administrator . . . made my day . . .

Alex

Practices on this vary, and personal piety like this is less regulated than in Roman Catholicism. It seems, to me, to follow a somewhat graded scale of physical piety depending on what is going on. In the Orthodox churches I have been to, some people cross themselves when the priest blesses with the hand, but perhaps more simply bow. When the priest blesses with a holy object (the cross, the book of gospels, the holy gifts, etc.), the tendency is for more people to cross themselves rather than simply bowing. This also generally applies to the Eucharist as well ... most people cross themselves at the quasi-"benediction" with the remaining Eucharist after communion, most people cross themselves before receiving communion. And then of course there's the liturgy of the presanctified gifts, when we fully prostrate ourselves before the presanctified Eucharist.

Dear Brendan,

Since we've discussed using "I's" and "We's" in the Creed as well as lego high-backs, I'm not as pensive about asking this question . . .

The bow is almost always associated with the Orthodox Sign of the Cross, is it not?

I mean, one usually bows at the end of the Sign of the Cross.

Is it different when Crossing during the Liturgy at various points?

Alex

Slava Jesu Kristu,

It is also a custom to cross oneself at the mention of the Theotokos by name during the Liturgy as well as other services.

Dmitri

Dear Dmitri,

Oh, I honestly didn't know that!

The Old Rite does prescribe the Sign of the Cross at the end of the Byzantine "Hail Mary."

In the West, it was customary to bow even at the mention of the Name of Mary during conversation.

Any other pearls you'd like to share with us, Jazz Man?

Alex

In the Old Rite, we make the sign of the cross before making bows or prostrations at accepted parts of the service. The point to remember, is that significant parts of the services such as the veneration of the Gospel at matins, the end of the cherubic hymn and the hymn dostoino yest have poklony as recognition of this significance. As such, the sign of the cross is our prayer before bowing, as we say the Jesus prayer in doing so, regardless of where and when this happens in the course of a service. Equally, in saying the Jesus prayer, the poklon is the naturakl response to the words of the prayer.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

Bless me a sinner, Father Mark!

Could you discuss the beautiful Old Rite practice of extending out one's hands during the Great Procession with the prayer "Thy Good Spirit shall lead me in the land of uprightness?"

Alex

Do you mean the Great Entrance Alex?

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

I have noticed{in russian orthodox services}that people cross themselves at the mention of certain Saints or church fathers.I also noticed in the ruthenian parishes{near me atleast}that people cross themselves and bow at the same time instead of crossing then prostrating.I am going to get strange looks when I am touching the floor and hitting my head on that pew.

Michael