www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Annulments

Dear Paul,

So you are saying that the RC Church grants annulments because it doesn't believe that marriage is undissoluable?

That is what you just said, is it not?

So therefore teachings on marriage are not part of the rule of faith for Roman Catholics?

From the actions of the U.S. bishops, it would seem not.

Alex

Mikey,

My apologies for mispelling your name.

Paul

Dear Friends,

I think I've made my point, accept it or not.

I'll leave this discussion now.

God bless.

Alex

Yes. My cousin's second wife had to get her previous marriage in the Protestant church annulled. Unfortunately, she learned that only after patiently waiting three years for him to get his previous marriage annulled.

They both got married outside the Catholic Church. It was a royal debacle.

Joe

Ooops! I left some directions out on how to find these topics.

For both of these links you must click on "Canon Law" to get to discusion on "annulments" and "valid consent for marriage".

Paul

PaxT,

Is a Latin Catholic marriage a contract or covenant? And how is that conveyed liturgically?

Is a Byzantine Catholic/Orthodox marriage a contract or covenant? And how is that conveyed liturgically?

Who is/are the ministers of the sacrament in each marriage?

If the Latin West approaches marriage differently from the Christian East, do you think there may be different "disciplinary" and "theological" aspects to consider, especially in regards to remarriage?

Just trying to get things Rite.

God bless,
Joe Thur

Slava Isusu Christu!

Excllent points, Joe! I'm exceptionally curious to see the responses.

This may start a whole other "argument" !

In Christ,
mikey.

Mikey,

Thank you. I like arguments. Or haven't you noticed? Am I betraying my Latin seminary education in philosophy?

I am still detoxing from metaphysics.

Hey! I read your blurb on your profile page. I like brewing too. Haven't done it for awhile though. Librarian? Cool! Libraries and bookstores are like candy shops; they suck me in against my will. I have book receipts and overdue fines to prove it.

God bless!
Joe Thur

My Brothers in Christ's Body,

YOY!

How good it is for brothers to dwell together in love?

Couldn't the issues underlying this discussion be handled without general charges that belittle the respective practices of Churches, which though different, are sister Churches in the Catholic Communion or are sister Churches not in communion with Rome?

The areas of remarriage after divorce and marriage after annulments deserve an examination on their own merits, it seems to me. The Churches have legitimate beliefs and practices which are different. Some posters have presented such examinations.

But, to make charges based on faulty theological understanding or misinterpretation or misrepresentation of the practice of any Church in the great sadness that accompanies this area of life, simply is not appropriate. Some posters have presented such examinations, also.

The sorrows that attend upon the situations in the lives of persons who are granted remarriage after divorce or marriage after determination of nullity for due reason should not be used, IMHO as the instrument for getting even with fellow whom we consider to be ignorant, whether they be western or eastern. Nor should they be used as a vehicle to present one Church or another as lessor in its practices. It does no good to make claims that my church does it better than your church.

Don't we all owe each other and our Churches that much: Respect? Words spoken in restraint to convey understanding and respect and Christian love?

It seems fair to me to say that at least some of the words spoken about our respective Churches and their practices in this thread could build misinfromation in the minds of those who lurk here who do not know any of our Churches well.

Perhaps I have misunderstood what is happening here, but that is how it appears to me.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Steve


PS Reflecting on something that Fr. Elias said in another thread leads me to make the following comments. Fr.made the suggestion that we allow those posters who belong to a particular Church present the teachings of the Church to which they belong. We cannot assume, barring academic study of a Church other than our own, that we have the expertise to make claims about that Church and its teachings that members of the Church who have been properly formed would have.

It might help if posters who notice a seeming difference between the teachings of the Churches or their practices could begin by offering what they understand the teaching or practice and the reasoning behind them to be. These posters might make clear that they are asking and not attacking.

If it is done without implying good or bad or indifferent to the teaching or practice, a different kind of discussion might be possible.

Forgive me if I have stepped over any bounds.

We all agree the scandal of annulments in North America is horrendous. Because of the lack of education or concern amongst both the couples and the tribunals, I'm sure there are many Catholic couple who believe they are married when they are not, and many Catholic ex-couples who believe they are no longer married, when in fact they are.

Yes, it's hypocritical and sad. It's hypocritical because the Catholic Church holds her couples to such a high standard and then misguided laity and bishops undermine this. But, on the other hand, THANK GOD that couples ARE held to such a high standard. The Catholic Church hasn't allowed dissolution of marriage, as this is *impossible*. Because of this, we are able to at least reocognize the hypocrisy and gravity of the situation. If divorce/dissolution of marriage was OK-ed, we wouldn't call the situation hypocritical.

Better to have hypocritical members whose Church teaches orthodoxy than to have genuine members whose Church teaches lies. (I'm not speaking about any particular Church).

Logos Teen

Of course, this is almost exclusively an American pheomenon; nevertheless, this would actually be a step in the right direction - hard as that may be to believe.

Not quite so.

Not long ago the president of the diocesan tribunal in Mex City was interviewed in a programme "The Pope's Pulse" (secular tv though):

He said

"Every Catholic has the right to get an anullment, and they should not be afraid of coming with me, I approve almost 100% of the requests. Marriage is like when you go to a store and you buy a product. if the product doesn't work or fails, you can ask for your money and get it back. The Church doesn't divorce, it just restores your previous status".

My views on annulment represent my opinion/interpretation of the teachings of the Roman Catholic Church.

For official RC teaching consult the Catechism of the Catholic Church.

Paul

Such language is unacceptable for anyone calling himself or herself a Christian. I invite PaxTecvm to refrain from posting on the Forum if he/she cannot post with charity.

I hope that Paxtecvm's persistently combative style is not taken as representative of ALL the Latin posters here.


That said, I am a little perplexed as to what Alex is driving at on this thread. We have all admitted that the annulment courts in the US and Canada, and apparently Mexico, have created a scandal by giving out decrees of nullity like cotton candy at a baseball game. Nevertheless, the teaching of the Church remains the same; those courts and yes, those BISHOPS who choose to defy it will be held accountable by God to the extent of their culpability.

What more does Alex want us to say? Does he want the Church to repeal Christ's teaching about the indissolubility of marriage, just because some people choose to disregard it? I really don't know what he is after.

You all know that I respect Dr. Roman and admire his devotion and learning--but his arguments on this thread leave me really perplexed.

LatinTrad

Response to your questions:


So you are saying that the RC Church grants annulments because it doesn't believe that marriage is undissoluable?

No, I think my posts speak for themselves.

So therefore teachings on marriage are not part of the rule of faith for Roman Catholics?

Teachings on marriage (CCC and the Code of Canon law) ARE part of the rule of faith for RC's

From the actions of the U.S. bishops, it would seem not.

We may have an opinion about U.S. bishops practices concerning annulments but it is up to the Holy Father alone to regulate a bishops' actions.

Paul