www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Russian bell ringing.

wow, angelus.
this is one of my most loved latin traditions. The large heretic church in downtown bramton still rings the angelus.

Anybody who thinks bell ringing is disturbig the peace is obviously messed up (how north american).

Nobody has complained about our bell riging, infact, people stop their cars and will listen to the bells until they are finished. In many cases our bells have drawn people onto the property and into the church.

Ilya

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ilya romanovich:
[QB] Hello all,

"I am so happy someone brought up the topic of bells. Our church in Brampton (saintelias.com, see the bell tower section!) has a bell tower and seven bells (the minimum number of bells needed for a true zvon....anybody wishing to learn how to ring bells, set them up, and lots of tricks to get the best sounding patterns are welcome to come up to my church and I will quite literally show you the ropes."

Esteemed Ilya,
I enjoyed your parish's web site. I will think seriously about taking you up on the invitation for a visit - and a free "introductory lesson"!
Who was it that taught you how to ring?

Alex wished me a blessed Pascha, I return the sentiment to him, and all.

The monks at Holy Resurrection Monastery in California are called to prayer by hammer on board. I think it was Fr. Basil who mentioned that the sound is supposed to be remindful of Noah building his ark. Very cool.

The German RC church near my office rings the angelus. It is wonderful to hear the bells. Millet's painting of the same name depicting French farmers with their heads bowed at the ringing of the Angelus also has to be one of my favorites.

Yes, several of the recordings from Chevtogne have the semantron. Also there are some great recordings from Athos, especially from Simona Petra and Stavro Nikita, with some nice semantron work.

I heard from one Greek monk that the semantron was used by Noah to call the animals into the Ark.

Regarding the semantron, St. Anthony of Novgorod says, "The Greek semantron was given to us by the angels". Amalarius of Metz in the 9th century discusses the qualities and use of the semantron in the Latin church. He even calls it a "humble custom of the Roman Church" and acknowledges Constantinople had kept a venerable tradition by continuing to foster its use.

Dear Friends,

So I take it it is all right for us Easterners to observe the Angelus bell when we hear it with the Angelus prayer?

It is always my inclination to cross myself whenever I hear church bells.

Is it an Eastern tradition to do so?

Also, Ilya Romanovich, WHICH heretic church are you referring to?

There used to be a highly developed English "code" of church bells, especially when someone died. Three bells would signify that a man died, six that a woman and nine that a child.

It was the Anglican poet, canon and saint, George Herbert ("Holy Mr. Herbert") who really didn't like it when people stopped to ask "for whom the bell tolls?"

As he wrote, "Do not ask for whom the bell tolls - it tolls for thee!"

He also wrote: "Caesar is not Caesar still, nor Alexander - Alexander! But Jesus is Jesus still, and will be forever!"

Alex

Durak, having heard the beauty of the bells at St. Elias first hand, I can assure you it would be worth the trip. But my son tells me to take Illya seriously when he hands out the hearing protection when you are inside the tower.

I remember attending Pascha at the Serbian Orthodox parish in San Diego a few years ago. Apparently, the year before, neighbors around the Church complained about the Church bells being rung for the procession at 12:00 AM.

Well... Father made sure that the next year, they were rung even louder!!!!!!!!!!!!

Of course, I was thinking "you GO, Father!!!"

Esteemed Diak,

You wrote,
"I heard from one Greek monk that the semantron was used by Noah to call the animals into the Ark."

On second reflection, I believe that is exactly what Fr. Basil said, and I just remembered incorrectly. Thanks for the correction.

Dear durak and Diak,

Was not the semantron originally adopted though because the Muslims wanted to muffle the peal of bells calling Christians to prayer?

Noah had no need to call the animals to the Ark as they all came under special direction . . .

It was like the Ukrainian school-child who wouldn't give his name to the teacher.

The teacher asked, "Well, how do they call you to dinner?"

The student replied, "They don't - I come by myself without being called."

Alex

Dear Alex,

The Semantron pre-dates the use of bells in church. The idea that the simantron comes from the turkish oppression is not true.

Also, I think some of you are mixed up. As I understand, the simantron is played by someone walking around the church before
the service. This symbolically represents the building of the ark of salvation (the church) and calling Christ's flock inside to safety.

ilya

Actually in Athonite usage there is a distinction between the semantron and the talanton, if we really want to get down to details. The talanton is not hand-held.

These are used to wake the monks before prayer such as the Mesonycticon and before every office in the monastery, and at some monasteries also before the trapeza blessing. St. John Climacus calls the talanton "the spiritual trumpet" in the Ladder.

I have to disagree with its origin from Turkish oppression. I think it may have reached greater importance because of the forbidding of bell ringing by certain Moslem sultans, but the the use of wooden sounding boards for prayer is much more ancient.

The way I understand the mallet patterns are that the monk starts beating the semantron or talantron slowly in groups of three beats, slowly getting faster, calling "Adam, Adam, Adam" with taps, first to things that creep, then things with four legs, and finally man into the "ark of salvation" within the monastery, again symbolic of Noah calling creation into the ark.

I ordered and received "Bells of the Chud Region."
Playing it on this Bright Monday morning is wonderful.
Thank you!