www.byzcath.org Forums News & Events Church News JPII and Putin

Pope Thanks Putin for Efforts to Bring Orthodox and Catholics Closer
Meets Russian President in an Audience

VATICAN CITY, NOV. 5, 2003 (Zenit.org).- John Paul II assured President Vladimir Putin that he prays for Russia, and thanked the leader for his commitment to bring Orthodox and Catholics closer together.

Relations between the Holy See and the Russian Orthodox Church became more difficult following the Pope's decision in February 2002 to establish four Catholic dioceses in Russia. The Orthodox have similar jurisdictions outside Russia.

During the audience today, John Paul II had his aides bring into the Vatican Library for the meeting an icon revered by Russian believers, the icon of the Mother of God of Kazan. The icon usually hangs in the Pope's private chapel.

Putin watched as the Pope blessed the icon, and then the Russian leader himself kissed it, Vatican interpreters said.

According to Russian reporters who were in the room, the Holy Father then said in Russian, "I want to thank President Putin for everything he has done to bring the Russian Orthodox and Catholic Churches closer together, and for peace in the world."

Before leaving on a state visit to Italy, Putin told Italian reporters in Moscow that he wanted to help end the dispute between the Vatican and the Orthodox Church, but that Russia would defend its faith and identity.

"I see my task not in ensuring the Pope's visit to Russia, but in helping these steps toward unity," he said. "Naturally, it would be possible only if the Churches reach an agreement."

Vatican spokesman Joaqu�n Navarro-Valls reported that "in a parallel manner to the audience, Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano addressed the same topics with Igor Ivanov, the Russian Foreign Affairs Minister, and the other Ministers of the delegation."

"In particular, they examined the new initiatives under way for peace in the Holy Land," he said. The spokesman added: "The audience given by the Pope lasted 30 minutes and was very cordial."

I've heard some interesting things about Vladimir Putin, including claims that he's a sincere Orthodox Christian. I'am however unaware of him ever stating his opposition to his country's abortion laws.

I am more concerned about his KGB past and his rather authoritarian governing style in Russia.

Dear Friends,

Given the great sociological fact of the Russian Orthodox Church, Putin is only doing the smart thing as a political leader in reaching out to the West in the person of the Pope on the one hand, and defending Orthodoxy as an integral part of the Russian character on the other.

As former KGB, Putin was in the "disinformation" section - he is, therefore, a master politician, especially by Western standards .

He makes every effort to attend the Divine Liturgy and to support the Russian Church. He went to school with the current Russian Patriarch and Putin has richly endowed the Russian Church with material support as well.

Let's see what develops.

Alex

Yes, but isn't that interesting about the beloved Kazan Mother of God icon? As far as I can determine,the Holy Father has been trying to return this most revered image for some time and the Russians have been playing difficult, accusing the Catholics of stealing instead of rescuing it. Most curious thieves, so eager to return the loot!

Dear Daniel,

I think it has been determined that the icon the Holy Father has is a copy of the original and is not the original. There are many miraculous copies of the Kazan icon, such as at Kaplunivka, Derman, Kargopolsk, Katashinsk, Kuzmynk, Nizhne-Lomovsk, Sudal, Tabinsk, Tobolsk, Yaroslavsk, St Petersburg, Vyaznikovsk, Vishensk, Volohodsk and many other places.

The Russian Church is suspicious of the RC Church and its Ostpolitik.

So is the Ukrainian Catholic Church that has been a long-time victim of it as well.

Alex

Hey Daniel....is it just my browser, or is your avatar enormous.....neat!

Dear Unity-
It's an accident. Honest, I'm trying to shrink it; I am totally inept technologically. I once edited a Luddite magazine; honest. It is rather striking, though, isn't it?
And Alex: I know, it's all very confusing. The situation with the Russian Church is quite heartbreaking for someone like me, who loves the Russian tradition and also has no animosity toward Rome.

It looks so nice, Daniel that I am afraid others might be inclined to deliberately take after your mistake....

I would love to see news footage of the Holy Father and Mr. Putin venerating the icon of Our Lady of Kazan.
With all the talk about the Pope's health within these past weeks,I find it very interesting that the Holy Father did not give the icon to Mr. Putin to return to Russia. I personally interpret that to mean that the Holy Father still has the hope of returning the icon personally to Russia.

I do not believe the question regarding the authenticity of the icon has been settled. The icon has undergone many examinations over the years prior to its most recent one, and the conclusions have not always been in agreement. There are those that conclude that the icon is the original, while others have concluded that it is an early copy. I am reminded of the carbon-14 dating examination of the Holy Shroud of Turin that resulted in the Shroud being declared a product of the Middle Ages. Yet, recent examinations continue to support the traditon that it is the burial shroud of Our Lord.

Even though the Russian Orthodox Church seems not interested in the icon, the city of Kazan definitely would like the icon back. Whether or not it is the original, it does appear that this particular icon has become known as the "principle" icon of Our Lady of Kazan.

Dear Daniel,

That magazine wouldn't have been Caelum et Terra would it? I really miss it.

Terry

Turlough-
Yes indeed, the late great CT, which I thought was totally obscure. I am amazed.

Dear Griego Catolico,

The Russians basically see the RC Church in Russia as being in competition for the souls of the unchurched there - and a more credible competition than the many Protestant groups that are there now.

Even if RC Churches didn't proselytize, as they say they don't (but I've seen and heard evidence to the contrary), they still attract Russians who join them for different reasons. I have relatives who were "closet" Ukrainian Catholics during the Soviet era who are now RC in Ukraine - from what they write, this is largely because they somehow believe there will be material benefits forthcoming.

The MP doesn't want to help that thing along by being seen to be friendly toward Rome.

And if that icon were truly a miraculous copy at the very least, they would be clamouring for it back. Now they've told the Pope that the icon is stolen property from Russia and that it can be returned via the property government channels etc.

The icon became famous with the promotions of the Blue Army.

Either way, whatever the Pope does with the icon will be interpreted in a political light.

We had an actual original miraculous icon of "Akhtyrka" here in Ontario until late - this was in the William Kurelek museum in Niagara Falls.

It was returned to Ukraine, to be sure, and by our church authorities here. It was an "ecumenical gesture" to the Orthodox - but was given to the local government authorities in Kharkiv who promptly placed it in another museum.

Rather than enshrine that icon here for the edification of the faithful until such time as the Church in Ukraine could have properly enshrined it - the only thing our eparchy succeeded in doing is to continue to treat that sacred icon the way that the Bolsheviks had treated all sacred art - as museum ornaments.

Alex

I think some of us are missing the dual nature of the Holy See.

Pres. Putin and his entourage are visiting Vatican City as sate representatives of the Russian Federation, a political entity, not as Russian Orthodox faithful.

In hosting such a "State" visit, the Holy See "dressed" itself as a City-State and entertained the Russian functionaries equally as such as demanded by diplomatic protocols.

If the "issue" of the Russian Orthodox Church and the return of the Holy Icon of the Mother of God of Kazan became a secondary topic during the visit, this does not, and should not, call for an occasion for the Holy Father to return the icon to Pres. Putin personally. It's inappropriate, to say the least.

Unless the Russian Federation has declared, by law or otherwise, the Russian Orthodox Church as THE State Church?

AmdG

O mir'i vseho mira, blahostojanii svajtych Boziich cerkvej, i sojedinenii vs'ich, Hospodu pomolimsja. Hospodi, pomiluj
Stephanos I