www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Question about East/West concept of Purgatory

I am a little confused how the Catholic Church can allow two interpretations of "purgatory". The Eastern Catholics have their own way, the West their own way. But how can you have two different descriptions of "purgatory"?

Thanks!

Hi Drewmeister!

The Eastern Church and the Western Catholic Church do approach some doctrinal matters differently... the important thing to keep in mind is that these differences aren't contradictions, and one side isn't "right" and the other side "wrong."

Purgatory, for instance, is simply a state of purification for those who die in imperfect grace... that's all the Catholic Church officially teaches.

The West views purgatory as more of a place, and has developed a whole system of indulgences and such.

The East sees purgatory as more of a process, a state, and actually it's supposed to begin in THIS life. We call this process "theosis"-- the process of becoming more and more like God. If needed, this process of theosis continues after death until we are perfect, and perfectly united to God.

But these two ideas, though different, aren't contradictory... just two different ways of looking at the same thing.

The concept of heaven and hell is also different in the East... in the West, hell is viewed as a state of eternal separation from God... often the idea people have is that hell is a place, a Godless place, and that is what makes hell hell.

In the East, there is no concept of being separated from God after death, because there is no place where God is not. After we die, we will all stand in His Presence, our real selves naked and unable to hide from Him. He will see us as we really are, and we will see OURSELVES as we really are also. Those who have made themselves enemies of God will not be able to stand His presence, His eternal love, the fire that is He (scripture calls God "a consuming fire"). Therefore to be in His presence, for them, is unbearable torture.

Yet again, these different concepts are not contradictory; hell is still a separation from God, just a spiritual one and not a geographical one.

Hope this helps!

Karen

Dear Friend,

Well, I'm still not sure what the Roman Catholic Church teaches about "purgatory" other than the name itself.

I've read all kinds of explanations, the distinction between "place" and "state" etc.

(I don't want to get RayK started . . . just kidding Ray, just kidding ).

Without getting into the formal differences, what unites East and West is the belief that the souls not yet ready for heaven, either because of sins that are not "unto eternal death" or because of not having had an opportunity to bring forth the "fruits of repentance," undergo a time of purification and can be aided in this by the Church on earth, especially through the Divine Liturgy and the Church's prayer for the dead.

I think even our Protestant friends can agree on this.

Alex

Thanks for the replies!

I wonder though, even though neither the Western or the Eastern understandings are wrong, here is where I get confused: so "purgatory" for Roman Catholics will be a place, and "purgatory" for Eastern Catholics will be a state? It seems like there are two Truths being described or something.

Could you help me with this? Thank you!

Dear Drew,

I think we should let the RC's explain what the latest view on purgatory is . . .

I've read explanations here before on this mystery, and after I've read them, it was MORE of a mystery . . .

The Orthodox do not use "purgatory." Souls not ready for heaven go to Hades.

It is the nature of the state of sin that the souls are in that define whether they are eventually released from Hades or whether they stay there - as I understand a Local Orthodox Council as defining.

And it is only until the Final Judgement Day that we are assigned to either heaven or hell proper - until that time, souls of the just are in a "forecourt" of heaven or hell.

And there is no notion of purgatorial fire in the East - at Florence, the Latin Church agreed that the Greeks have no need to affirm such a fire.

Alex

Thanks, but Im still kinda confused about the post I made above, about there seeming to be "two Truths".

Thanks again!

Dear Drew,

Well, we can look at it as two ways of understanding the same Truth - namely, that the souls of those not ready to enter heaven are purified after death and are helped by the Church's prayer, especially the Divine Liturgy, until they can be united with God.

It's the "how" that differs.

But then, again, what can we really know about the "how?"

And how . . .

Alex

Drewmeister,

Greetings. Maybe this will help you. Is the glass half empty or half full? It is the same glass, but viewed differently based upon.... I promise I will not go there.

In Christ,

Michael

Wow! Good thoughts, thank you, all!

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

The only thing Catholics are obliged to believe about purgatory is that it is true. I mean one could call purgatory a place because this process has to happen somewhere but what that place looks like, where it is etc.etc. that is still up for theological debate. Until the theology on purgatory is definitively framed then different schools of thought will suggest different things about it.

Dear Drew,
Nice to see you on here and posting.
For Latin Catholics, the only teaching which is defined is that there is a purification that continues after death and that we can help souls buy our prayers and works of piety (prayer, fasting and almsgiving.)
If you see that then there is no difference between East and West.
The particulars are theological opinions which attempt to explaint the how of purgation.

Stephanos I

Wow, thanks again!

Good info.

Thanks, Stephanos, for welcoming me!