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The East permits fasting on Sundays?
That's news to me.
I think the tradition of no fasting on Sundays is beautiful and reminds us of the glory of the Resurrection and the fact that every Sunday really is a "mini-Easter."
Of course, with the Eastern tradition explained, I'll probably find beauty in that, too.
I respectfully ask that while anyone is welcome to explain to me why the East fasts on Sunday, I would not like to read any insults or slights at the Western practice of no fasting. Pretend like I didn't mention the West all, only asked why the East does fast. Ok?
Logos Teen
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Originally posted by Professor J. Michael Thompson:
The National Council of Catholic Bishops released this letter on November 18, 1966. Please read it CAREFULLY before you make accusations. Professor, 1966 was a pretty long time ago. Nearly 40 years ago, to be accurate. The instructions that Latin Rite Catholics are receiving today, as regards fasting and abstinence, is different from what was written then. I believe it is the currrent norms and instructions given to the faithful that are the topic of conversation here. For instance I posted earlier the instructions of the Diocese of St. Petersburg, FL (which are the same instructions that have been reported given to friends of mine in other dioceses around the country). These instructions state: Fasting is to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday by all Catholics between the ages of 18 to 59 years (inclusive). On days of fasting, one full meal is allowed. Two smaller meals, sufficient to maintain strength, may be taken according to one�s needs, but together they should not equal another full meal. Eating between meals is not permitted, but liquids are allowed.
Abstinence from meat is to be observed by all Catholics who are 14 years of age and older. Ash
Wednesday, all the Fridays of Lent, and Good Friday are days of abstinence. These instructions were part of a larger document, as one would expect. However, this is the sum total of the instructions to the faithful as regards their requirement for fasting. It would appear that things have been 'relaxed' indeed in the period of time following the Second Vatican Council. As is shown in the difference between these instructions and the article you presented from 1966. Further, no one was making accusations. They were simply stating an observation that can easily be made in nearly every Roman Catholic parish in the United States. Carole
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Logos Teen, I found the following reference from the OCA to be helpful: http://www.oca.org/OCFasting.asp?SID=2 It appears, from what I have read, that Saturdays and Sundays are still days of abstinence but the not of strict fast or abstinence. On Saturdays and Sundays in Lent, with the exception of Holy Saturday, two main meals may be taken in the usual way, around mid-day and in the evening, with wine and olive oil; but meat, animal products and fish are not allowed. So it is not the strict fast that one would observe on weekdays (Mon - Fri). I realise that this does not answer the main point of your question, which is "Why?" but I hope perhaps it helps to see that the weekend days are not strict fast and abstinence. At least not according to the page in question which is in turn quoting an article by Bishop Kallistos Ware.
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Dear Carole, You are right - Professor Thompson is behind the times!  When it comes to Lent in the RC church today, there are few "hard and Fast" rules . . . (Carole, consider this post to be a form of Lenten "PUN-ishment" - I'm helping you get into Heaven!) Alex
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Dear Teen Logo, We don't "fast" on Sundays - what are you talking about? We abstain from meat on Sundays and all days of the Great Fast. That isn't "fasting" Big Guy. Has it been so long in your Church since your people fasted that you've forgotten what it's all about? Alex
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Dear Mike,
One reason why the East never adopted the tradition of marking penitents with ashes has to do with our Lord's command not to make a show of one's fasting.
And also because it was never even on the East's radar screen to begin with.
Pussy-willows were and are used by many EC's in Europe NOT because palm trees don't grow there - but for another, much more legitimate, reason.
The pussy-willow's buds that burst forth in the spring has been interpreted to signify the Resurrection of Christ - a kind of "mini Paschal egg" if you will.
THAT is why it is used by many instead of palm fronds.
And just like palm fronds, pussy-willow branches are also later glued together in the shape of Crosses.
Alex
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Also, we celebrate Divine Liturgy on the Saturdays and Sundays of Great Lent. Is this not part of the reason for relaxed abstinence on those days of celebrating the Resurrection?
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Latins don't have to fast on Sundays, no more than we do. and Alex, you are so right about stating that every Sunday is a mini Easter, we should celebrate His Resurrection every Sunday, Lent or no (in fact, we should celebrate His Resurrection every day, because if He was not raised from the dead, then we are still in our sins, and the most miserable of people, so wrote the Holy Spirit through St. Paul)
Much Love,
Jonn
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The Churches in India observe the 50 day fast, beginning last Monday until Easter. The Syriac Fast [ redemptorists.org.uk] Traditional Syrian Fast and Abstinence (in vigour until at least the 1920's) (Cf. Fr. R.. Janin, A.A. Les Eglise orientales et Les Rites orientaux, Paris 1922) Fast: eating and drinking nothing until midday Abstinence: abstaining from eating all meat, oil, wine and animal products (eggs, milk, cheese etc.) 1. Nineveh fast three days, Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of the third week before Lent, (After the example of the Ninevites who fasted and repented when Jonah preached the imminence of Divine chastisements). 2. Great Lent 50 days of fasting all days except Sunday and Saturday (but Holy Saturday is a fast day; abstinence during the whole of Lent Sundays and Saturdays included) 3. Apostles Lent aabstinence only, three days 25th - 28th June 4. Assumption Lent abstinence only, eight days 8th - 14th August 5. Christmas Lent abstinence only, ten days 16th - 24th December 6 Abstinence All Wednesdays and Fridays are days of abstinence; except: from Christmas to Epiphany, from Easter to Pentecost, during the week preceding Great Lent, on June 29th and August 15th 7 Forbidden food Like most oriental Christians, the Syrians kept the Mosaic ban on eating blood, suffocated animals and certain animals considered impure; and which Oriental Church Councils have many times renewed.
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Speaking of RCC's and lent: Priest Lets Friend Choose His Sacrifice for Lent [ npr.org] All Things Considered, February 28, 2006 � Father James Martin does not decide what he'll give up for lent; he lets his college roommate pick for him. It started as a bar bet when the two were in college, but is now an important part of Martin's spiritual practice. Martin is a Jesuit priest and author of My Life with the Saints.
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Dear John, It is interesting how liturgically the East does celebrate Sunday - the Lord's Day - as a true "Little Pascha!" Many Orthodox Ukrainians and, of course, Orthodox Russians refer to Sunday as "Voskresennya" or "Resurrection." (I once met a soviet communist government representative and, just to take a jab at him, for the sheer pleasure of it, I asked him what "Sunday" is in Russian. When the translator said, "Voskressenya" - I said, "Ah, but Whose Resurrection?" He did not care to respond to that. . . ). I wonder how other Christian traditions refer to Sunday? Alex
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Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
(Carole, consider this post to be a form of Lenten "PUN-ishment" - I'm helping you get into Heaven!)
Alex Alex, On a side note - Please let me say thank you very much for your efforts to get me into Heaven! I needed that laugh more than you can imagine!! Many years, Carole
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Like the Maronite Catholics, we Syro-Malabar Catholics have an imposition of ashes on Ash Monday. The ceremony is called "vibhoothi". While I am almost certain that the ceremony is an imitation of the Latin custom, I learned just now (through googling "vibhoothi") that "vibhoothi" also refers to the ash that Hindu followers of the god Shiva place on their foreheads. I wonder if this can be seen as a successful example of inculturation: associating a (Latin) Christian custom with the name of a Hindu custom, thus imbuing the Christian custom with more meaning for those who come from a Hindu background. A Latinization (which is bad), but inculturation (which is good)... Hmmm... Peace, Alex Originally posted by Professor J. Michael Thompson:
. . .
However, Maronite Catholics do have an "imposition of ashes" for the faithful on the first day of the Great Fast, which is often called, tongue-in-cheek, "Ash Monday." This is definitely a copy of the RC custom.
Prof. J. Michael Thompson
Byzantine Catholic Seminary
Pittsburgh, PA
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From IndianCatholic.com [ theindiancatholic.com] February 7,2005
Eastern Catholics Begin Lent On Monday
NEW DELHI (ICNS) � In preparation to Easter, Oriental Catholics across India began Monday a 50-day fasting period in traditional liturgies that marked vibrancy of their piety.
Hundreds of people joined Malayalam language liturgies in Syro-Malabar Churches in Kerala and elsewhere, where priests smeared ashes on the forehead of the people, including children.
In New Delhi's Sacred Heart Latin rite Cathedral special arrangements were made for the Oriental rite Mass that marked the beginning the 50-day lent period.
What is generally called the Eastern Church includes the Orthodox churches, the Oriental churches and the Eastern-rite churches that are part of the Roman Catholic Church.
Lent in the Eastern tradition begins on Clean Monday or Ash Monday, more specifically on the seventh Monday before Easter. Even within Oriental Churches, it ends at different dates.
In Syro-Malabar and in some other Oriental traditions it ends on Easter Sunday morning. Since the fast and abstinence continue until the 50th day it is called 50-day fast or great fast (valiya noyambu).
While "valiya" simply means great or big, the term "noyambu" is a combination of two words: novu (pain) and anmbu (mercy). The lent traditionally is a time to experience pain through mortification and fast and at the same time show mercy towards others through acts of charity.
In contrast to Valiya Noyambu, the Church also observes a Cheriya (shorter) Noyambu of 25-days, which starts from Dec. 1 leading to Christmas on Dec. 25.
The Lent in western custom is a 40-day period of prayer and fasting recalling Jesus' withdrawal into the wilderness for 40 days before he began his public ministry.
In the western system, Lent starts with Ash Wednesday ands end Sunday before Easter, but yet counts only 40 days. Since Sundays commemorate resurrection, all Sundays are excluded from Lent. The rest of the days in the period count only 40 days.
While Western Churches have similar days of fast, not all Eastern Churches keep the same days of fast.
For example, the Ukrainian Catholic Church, the largest among oriental Churches, starts on the seventh Monday before Easter but concludes on the Friday before Palm Sunday. In other words, they also keep only 40 days of fast.
The 50-day lent is unique to Kerala Christian tradition and traditional families among them even today refuses to eat meat, fish and egg during the period. Some stricter people even avoid milk and all milk items.
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Dear Carole, On the Forum, I like to think of myself as the "Women's Pet and the Men's Regret!"  Cheers, Alex
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