www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Holy Kiss, the Doors, and other ancient practices..

I've heard that there have been some attempts to determine a way to reintroduce the "holy kiss". I'm certainly in favor of it. It is more authentic than the "holy handshake" of fellowship and certainly better than passing by the rubric entirely as we do now. Has anyone heard about this attempt?

Does anyone know of a Church that actually does anything with "the doors, the doors"?

Dan Lauffer

In our parish, at "the doors, the doors," the curtain is opened, and we have been instructed since our youth to "guard the doors of our hearts and minds against heresy," as we prepare to pray "to symbolon tis pisteos," The Symbol of Faith (creed).

We share a kiss of peace with family and friends, but usually stop there. It isn't very smart to kiss a Greek without her or his----especially his---permission! I believe some of the Russian Orthodox do the same,(except ask permission since, like the Ukrainians, they are so innocent. Not like us wily Greeks. Just ask Alex ), but I can't say for certain. A beautiful greeting with the kiss is, "Christ is in our midst," with the response, "He is and always shall be," which is the same fraternal salutation used at the Kiss of Peace by officiating priests and
(perhaps) deacons.


Years ago, as I contemplated "converting" to Catholicism, I attended a Ruthenian parish, but I do not remember the congregation sharing a kiss of peace, nor did they seem to have a liturgical response to " the doors, the doors," since this particular parish did not have an iconostasis and, therefore, no royal
doors or curtain.

That was years ago and I understand that there has been a liturgical revival within the Byzantine Catholic Church. Perhaps many parishes have returned to the Orthodox liturgical traditions.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

Bill

Good Evening Mr. Lauffer,

I was at a Hierarchical Liturgy a few years back at a seminary. This Kiss of Peace was done up in the Sanctuary and spread to everyone in the Chapel.The man in front of me(probably a seminarian) turned around, swept me up in his arms and gave me a Big Hug! Needless to say I was stunned and embarrassed! Numby I turned to the person in back of me a gave him a "Holy handshake". In my small community where I know everyone I wouldn't mind this,but in a larger Church or a visiting Church I would not feel comfortable having strangers hug me.I would like to point out though that I am not stand-offish.I am very helpful to visitors during and after Liturgy. Glad to be back.


Nicky's Baba

"Years ago, as I contemplated "converting" to Catholicism, I attended a Ruthenian parish, but I do not remember
the congregation sharing a kiss of peace, nor did they seem to have a liturgical response to " the doors, the
doors," since this particular parish did not have an iconostasis and, therefore, no royal
doors or curtain."

Actually, as an instruction to safeguard the Mysteries, the original Liturgical expression referred to the doors of the building of worship (no icon screens yet), directing that they be closed and guarded.

Actually, as an instruction to safeguard the Mysteries, the original Liturgical expression referred to the doors of the building of worship (no icon screens yet), directing that they be closed and guarded.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Exactly. During the Turkish occupation of Greece (and of other Balkan Orthodox countries), as the priest intoned, "the doors, the doors... ," the temple doors were shut---and locked---since Turkish gendarmes had a perverse habit of attempting to ride their horses into Orthodox temples during services, including the celebration of the most holy liturgy.

As you correctly state, guarding the doors and the temple against blasphemers is a very ancient practice which has been, over the centuries, a necessity and not just a symbolic expression as it is today, for the most part.

Peace

Bill

No physical exchange of peace in my parish, but I would have no objection to its introduction.

K.

At Holy Transiguration Monastery in Boston (HOCNA), at "the doors, the doors" the subdeacons sweep through the church and remove all non-old calendar orthodox to the vestibule, so I have been told and have confirmed on their website.

anastsios

And before the Turkish occupation and even the Iconoclast heresy, "The Doors, the Doors" were the cue to the catechumens that they were to exit the nave of the church, since as they were not full members of the Body of Christ, they could not witness the Anaphoric and Communion Rites.

God bless.

Akemner,

That is my understanding as well. What would be an appropriate liturgical movement to emphasise this reality today? I doubt that many know why the deacon even intones these words in our parish. I should think that a sermon on this and the holy kiss might be quite appropriate.

Dan L

As you know, the Prayers for the Catechumens precede the Great Entrance and, obviously, the Proclaimation of Faith and the intonation, "the doors, the doors."
That is the current practice in my Greek Orthodox Church, but the "Prayers for the Catechumens" are usually omitted.

However, the final and core prayer of the litany could be classified as the model prayer for missions and missionaries.

It reads:

"Lord our God dwelling on high and watching over the lowly, who sent forth as salvation to the human race your only-begotten Son, God, our Lord Jesus Christ: look upon your servants the catechumens who haved bowed their heads to you, and in due time make them worthy of regeneration, the remission of sins and the robe of incorruption. Join them to your holy, catholic and apostolic Church, and number them among your chosen flock. That with us they too may glorify your most noble and magnificent name, of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and always and for ever and ever. Amen."

Then:

"All catechumens, depart. Catechumens, depart. All catechumens, depart. Let no catechumens remain."

Then:

Prayer of the Faithful.

Liturgy of Offering

-Cherubic Hymn

-Great Entrance

-Aitesis

-Offertory Prayer

-The Kiss of Peace

-Proclaimation of Faith
....with:

"The doors, the doors. Sophia! Let us be attentive."

As you can see, in current usage, the intonation of "the doors...," actually follows and is quite removed from the dismissal of the catechumens,begging the question:

"What significance do we attach to it in a contemporary setting?"


A clue: The intonation of "the doors, the doors," now immediately precedes the reading or prayer of the Symbol of Faith. Joined with the Litany of the Catechumens and the core prayer, certainly the significance of both and their unity of purpose is obvious.


Peace and holiness.

Bill

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Psalm 46 ]