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#58014 03/03/03 11:52 PM
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Can anyone explain the reason B C's do not have the Divine Liturgy during wek days of Lent and also, why are Stations of the Cross not said anymore?

#58015 03/04/03 01:54 PM
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Dear Friend,

Not only the East, but when the West had the benefit of being in communion with all the East wink , the entire Church of Christ ONLY celebrated the Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified during the week-days of Lent.

The East used to celebrate the Presanctified each and every evening from Monday to Friday, but now only on Wednesdays and Fridays.

This was to give the fasting faithful further strength through Holy Communion, union with Christ which they were deepening in their ascetic struggle.

But the liturgical rules proscribed the celebration of the Canon of the Liturgy during the week in deference to the solemnity and sobriety of the ascetic struggle - not counting Saturdays and Sundays.

But that is also a problem in the West since the West decreed that Saturday is a fasting day (instead of Wednesday).

The Stations of the Cross are a Western paraliturgical devotion that must take a backseat to the liturgical Lenten celebrations of the Eastern Church.

There are EC and even Orthodox parishes, here and across the pond, that celebrate the Stations.

Other Eastern Churches have adapted the "Passiyi" or "Passion of Christ," a service developed by St Peter Mohyla of Kyiv that is sometimes served on the Sundays of Lent.

There is always the Akathist to the Cross or the Passion of Christ that can be served anytime during the week in Lent.

Alex

#58016 03/04/03 02:54 PM
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Dear Alex -

Please say more about the pasiya!

Spasi Khristos -Mark, monk and sinner.

#58017 03/04/03 03:06 PM
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark!

Yes, I used to have a copy and will hunt one down for you if I can find it or if anyone else here has one.

Fr. Serge Keleher was the beneficiary of my last copy . . .

It is divided into five major parts with Gospel readings and prostrations - much like the 12 Gospels service.

It resembles a meditation on the Passion of Christ like either the Stations or the Akathist - that was originally written, if I'm not mistaken, by the great Orthodox Archbishop of Odessa, Innocent (who may be a saint?).

Innocent included a veneration of the Five Wounds of Christ at the beginning of his Akathist that I have in a translation made by the great Anglican translator of all things Eastern, John Mason Neale.

(Do you see how really good I am? smile smile and how humble? smile )

Fr. Serge used to say a Passiya on each Sunday of Lent - something the Ukrainian Orthodox Churches did as well.

St Peter Mohyla tried to combat Latinizations by developing a few of his own . . .

The EC Akathists to the Sacred Heart of Jesus et al. were written by Isidore Dolnitsky for the same reason - to keep EC's in their own parishes and not wandering to RC parishes because they liked those devotions.

Alex

#58018 03/04/03 03:09 PM
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Is this an evening service? I ask because of the prostrations bit - though I suppose bows would suffice. I presume it can be used at any time during the Great fast.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#58019 03/04/03 03:21 PM
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Bless me a sinner, Father Mark!

I'd have to check on that, but I would say you are right.

I've never seen this service performed, but only in written form.

Then again, I"ve never actually been to a "Stations of the Cross" although I talk about it often enough . . .

Big mouth, you see . . . wink

Alex

#58020 03/04/03 09:55 PM
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Dear Alex,

We're going to have to send you to Lviv, to follow Patriarch Lubomyr through the streets for the "Way of the Cross". :p

Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:
. . . Then again, I"ve never actually been to a "Stations of the Cross" although I talk about it often enough . . .
Alex

#58021 03/05/03 10:52 AM
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Dear John,

I wouldn't mind - except that I fear the temptation would be rather great in me to have a tug at his beard along the way . . . smile

When I was a baby, I loved pulling long hair, such as that of my nannies!!

(One left saying she was ready to kill me . . .)

Alex

#58022 03/05/03 11:23 AM
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Quote
sto wrote:
Can anyone explain the reason B C's do not have the Divine Liturgy during wek days of Lent and also, why are Stations of the Cross not said anymore?
Sto,

The Byzantine Church has a number of aliturgical days throughout the year, including all of the days of the Great Fast (lent). On these days there was no celebration of the Eucharistic Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy was celebrated only on Saturdays and Sundays during the Fast and the Eucharist was reserved for distribution at Presanctified Liturgies during the week (originally on each weekday but eventually only on Wednesdays and Fridays).

After about the 17th century we began imitating the customs of the Roman Catholic Church. By the time our spiritual ancestors came to North America many authentic Byzantine liturgical practices had been replaced with Roman Catholic liturgical practices. In North America, during the early and middle part of the 20th century, many Roman Catholics did not consider us to be really Catholic. Our response was an attempt to prove to them that we really were Catholic and the way we attempted to prove this was to imitate their liturgical customs. In recent generations we have begun the process of restoring our own wonderful liturgical life, replacing the elements borrowed from the Roman Church with those that are authentic to our own Byzantine Church.

The Stations of the Cross are a wonderful and prayerful paraliturgical service. They come to us from the tradition of the Latin Church. As extra-liturgical services they are not properly part of the Byzantine Church�s daily liturgical services during Great Lent. Prior generations, especially in North America, started praying them in imitation of the Roman (Latin) Catholic Church, partly in an attempt to be seen as real Catholics (as I noted above). In recent generations our Church has sought to restore liturgical services that are authentically Byzantine and to take the official liturgical services before the non-liturgical services of the Roman Catholic Church.

I hope this explanation helps. Please post any questions you might have.

Admin

#58023 03/05/03 11:30 AM
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Alex--

Your nanny had a beard like Patriarch Lubomyr? wink

Must have been from "the other side...."

Happy Ash Wednesday

Martin


Martin
#58024 03/05/03 12:12 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Administrator:

The Byzantine Church has a number of aliturgical days throughout the year, including all of the days of the Great Fast (lent). On these days there was no celebration of the Eucharistic Liturgy. The Divine Liturgy was celebrated only on Saturdays and Sundays during the Fast and the Eucharist was reserved for distribution at Presanctified Liturgies during the week (originally on each weekday but eventually only on Wednesdays and Fridays).
Admin
Dear-to-Christ Administrator,

Not quite "all of the days of the Great Fast" are aliturgical. Annunciation is a good example of this. I understand that other feasts may be celebrated with liturgy as the local custom dictates and according to the patronage of the parish/monastery, etc.

Also, according to the Slavonic St. Savvas typikon, when the feast of St. George (April 23) falls on the midpoint of Lent (Wednesday of Cross-veneration week), Divine Liturgy particulars are provided.

Tony

#58025 03/05/03 12:20 PM
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Dear Martin,

No, she had long hair LIKE a beard . . . wink

I'm just a guy with a lot of pull . . .

Alex

#58026 03/05/03 12:36 PM
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Dear Friends,

Our Administrator raises two important liturgical points of interest with respect to the Great Fast/Lent that I wanted to comment on in particular.

The first has to do with the reasons why devotions such as the Stations of the Cross were adopted by our Churches.

I agree with the Administrator's explanations and wanted to add two further points in history that point to other reasons.

The seventeenth century or the period of the Kyivan Baroque saw the Latinization of not only the Eastern Catholic Churches, which then truly DID refer to themselves as "Orthodox in communion with Rome," but also of Eastern Orthodox Churches as well.

In response to the Unionist movement and to the tremendous influence of the Jesuits via their famous and influential European schools and missions, the Orthodox Kyivan Church, as an example, took on the challenges these made to Orthodoxy.

So it sent its Orthodox theological students to study in places like Paris - believing it important to know the scholastic methods of Orthodoxy's "enemies."

And, unfortunately, these students studied too hard . . .

They brought back with them numerous and popular Latin devotions, including that of the Immaculate Conception. Ukrainian and Russian Orthodox printshops at this time issued the "Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary," the "Psalter of our Lady" (by St Bonaventure) and other devotions that were printed in Slavonic, especially at Venice.

Western Baroque art and architecture was also introduced into the East - and this was really unavoidable at the time.

In the 19th century, Eastern Catholics attended Latin services to the Sacred Heart etc. and Fr. Isidore Dolnitsky did up some Akathists and other services along RC themes to keep the EC's from going to RC Churches. "Latinization" was actually the least of the EC worries - their faithful were simply up and going over to the RC Church!

This leads to the second point, the whole area of popular devotion in the East.

To what extent is the East (Catholic and Orthodox) the author of its own tragedy in this department?

The Stations et al. are very "accessible" to the average church-goer, and they are very "doable" in terms of popular devotion.

What does the Eastern Church have by way of personal and public liturgical prayer that resembles the Stations et al. outside the Liturgy of the PreSanctified?

There is always the long Daily Office - but this has not always been popular with our Eastern Catholic and Orthodox people - it is difficult for the average person to do.

There are Akathists and other services that one could do in place of the Stations. St Peter Mohyla's response was to imitate the Stations in his "Passiyi" service.

So unless there are liturgical devotional forms that can successfully replace the Stations of the Cross and other devotions like that in our Churches, our Eastern Catholic people especially will continue to be attached to them as "their" devotions.

I personally pray the fifteen Stations (ie. including the Resurrection at the end) in the form of 15 decades of the Rosary daily in Lent - but privately.

But there is NOTHING in our local parishes that can be a ready substitute for the devotional happiness that our people receive from the Stations of the Cross or the "Sorokousty" - whatever those are. (Any ideas anyone?)

Instead of talking about WHY we wound up with the Stations of the Cross, like New Schmemanns and Meyendorffs smile , let's talk about WHAT in our tradition can be substituted for it that would bring our people the same spiritual joy!

Go ahead now . . .

Alex

#58027 03/05/03 12:47 PM
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Quote
Originally posted by Orthodox Catholic:

But there is NOTHING in our local parishes that can be a ready substitute for the devotional happiness that our people receive from the Stations of the Cross or the "Sorokousty" - whatever those are. (Any ideas anyone?)
Alex
Dear-to-Christ Alex,

Sorokousty = 40th day commememoration of the dead. It seems this is used to refer to the Souls' Saturdays.

Are you suggesting that comes from the Latins as well?

Tony

#58028 03/05/03 12:56 PM
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SLAVA ISUSU CHRISTU!
SLAVA NA VIKI BOHU!

St. Lazarus Saturday was always celebrated with Divine Liturgy in my parish.

In Bulgaria and Serbia, St. Lazarus Day is a BIG FEAST DAY with un-married girls going from house to house in the village singing and dancing celebrating the coming of Spring.

Oh,yes, their heads were.... GASP.... UN-COVERED!

:p

mark


the ikon writer
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