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Jennifer, I think you are correct in many cases...It is less frequent on ByzCath than on other fora, but yes, human nature being what it is, unless we struggle against it, many people, including my humble self, will make posts or articles or questions that we feel strongly about, and either want affirmed, or opposed, depending on how argumentative we are today. On the other hand, many questions are simply the need to clarify something in one's mind, and the poster genuinely hopes that some phrase will resonate and clarify some confusion. In many cases, someone has been advised or informed by others, and the explanation made no sense to him, but another person came along, and used the magic turn of phrase that made the guy with the question suddenly say "I get it, now!" Your answers so far have not suggested to anyone that you are not "Orthodox enough" to answer, by any means. Those you have posted here are certainly searching, and you have strong feelings about things you have consulted with different clergy about. But, even when one is learning, one may have that correct phrase, or slant on the subject being discussed to offer a helpful point of view to others. I say even, but, really, none of us stops learning, do they? I say, relax, and keep posting...and asking us YOUR point blank questions!

Gaudior, who always says at length whatever occurs at the moment

This thread seems like a good place to ask a Scripture question that's always bothered me (I know, I should ask it on the Scripture topic!).

From Psalm 50:
Behold I was born in iniquities and in sins my mother conceived me.

Huh? What iniquity is there in being born? And presuming a faithful marriage, what sin has the mother engaged in?

The fathers obviously thought this psalm important, for it is in so many different liturgies (even the priest says it while incensing the people, and the deacons say it while incensing the icons). But how do I explain that line to my 6-year-old, who hears it every night at compline?

Any thoughts or recommended commentaries?

-- Penthaetria

Pentha Tria,

i don't have anything to offer, but i just wanted to say what a great question and i have often wondered the same thing.

Thanks,
the_grip

All of us are born in sin and iniquity - as a consequence of the Fall. This is why we are in need of Baptism.
Incognitus

Dear Pentha and grip,

The scripture speaks of ourselves only having inherited Original Sin from Adam.

Sin and the darkening of our mind, concupiscence etc. the inclination to sinfulness and the like - this is Original Sin.

"Sin" does not ONLY mean an actual sin that we commit with the consent of our will.

We are also in the state of sin or rebellion as a result of Original Sin and the psalmist sees no difference. We have all sinned and fallen in Adam.

Alex

Quite right. As i mentioned, i was a Calvinist Presbyterian until my conversion, and i often struggle with the notion of original sin. Original sin according to the Calvinist is quite different from original sin according to the Catholic.

Both of your responses are helpful, and thanks for your insight.

God's peace and blessing to you,
the_grip

Penthaetria,

For an Orthodox perspective on Original Sin, get your hands on Fr. Thomas Hopko's Taped Lectures on "Sin: Primordial, Generational, Personal" through SVS.

Jennifer -

I'm just reading through your posts (and everyone else's). To me, I think that no Christian should find fault with someone who struggles to understand or integrate the Church's teaching. Too many equate struggle with dissent, when in fact a struggle can be indicative of God working in our life.

With that said, at times when I have struggled with Church teaching over the years, I have found the Scriptural phrase "Lord I believe, help my unbelief!" to be a most helpful prayer. There is certainly an intrinsic beauty and mystery in the Church's teaching, one that is often beyond our own limited understanding.

Where the difficulty often lies, however, is in its prudential application. As being one of those couples who struggled several years ago with a rare difficulty in this regard, my wife and I had to come face to face with the challenge of letting ourselves be disciples of the Church in the matter of ABC, or to let our own desires dictate the situation. For us, this time of trial, which lasted for two years, became (as my spiritual Father said it would) the glory of our marriage because we found many ways to share our love for and communion with each other outside of sexual expression.

The difficulty has since been resolved, but we look back on that time with great fondness and see it as the opportunity it was to deepen the spiritual nature of our marriage, which has made any susequent union more meaningful and beautiful. It is difficult to convey to someone who has not been challenged in the same way how marital love can "flourish in the desert" of continence, but in retrospect my wife and I would not have traded our experience for two years of "normality".

May God bless you in your struggle!

Peace,

Gordo