www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Kissing Popes Feet

I understand that emperor Henry IV kissed Pope Gregory VII feet as an act of humility. After this event it became some what of a common practice. Can anyone shed light on why this became a common practice?

De gustibus non est disputandum! Incognitus

Are you saying that the Pope's feet are "de gustibus"?

ps: (and seriously this time)

it was the practice, I believe, already at the Council of Ferarra-Florence because it was one of the initial or even preliminary points of contention even before the substantive issues between the Latin and Greek Church, viz. how to Greet the Pope.

The Latins insisted on feet-kissing.
And the Greeks would do no more than what they do for their own Patriarch, i.e. hand kissing.

Herb

ps: I like getting a blessing from my priest and kissing his hand. Do any Ruthenians do this?

Deacon Stan does. He kisses the priest hand and also touches it with his forehead as he is serving in the Divine Liturgy. We all do when we go for the blessing after the Divine Liturgy. He has taught all of the alter servers to act accordingly, helping them to understand the need for respect of clergy, and also for the hand that so graciously brings us Jesus.

I've seen this done. Now days, with opinion about the clergy at an all time "low" I wonder if it is something that should be encouraged?

If we want our seperated Protestant brethren to one day rejoin the Catholic Church, I think we should change the feet kissing to hand kissing. I do not think any Protestant will want to kiss the pope's feet!

Isn't this a reversal of humility? Did not Jesus wash the feet of the apostles and not the other way around?

I would vote for a mutual show of respect with the lay person doing it first; and they do not have to be an exact mirror image. The lay person could kiss the pope's hand and the pope could lay his hand on the lay person's shoulder or forehead and say "May Almighty God grant you a blessing, in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen."

Something like that.

Brad

I'm under the impression that foot-kissing as a method of greeting the Pope is no longer practiced even in Rome. Patriarch Maximos IV wrote a brief but pointed criticism of the practice in the run-up to Vatican II. However, I suppose one might still kisss the foot of that statue of Saint Peter in the basilica of the same name, if one felt so inclined. Incognitus

Dear Friends:

As I understand...

The kissing of the Popes feet was an act of obeisance done mainly by bishops.

It was usually done at the time of the coronation or first presentation.

It has not been done since the time of Pius XII (and perhaps the early reign of John XXIII).

And even then I have never seen a photograph of the occurrence.

The act itself symbolized homage to Christ in the person of his Vicar, the Pope.

The upper part of the Pope's shoes had embroidered crosses on them because of this very understanding.

It had a long history and was probably a vestige of Imperial Rome.

Today the Bishops kneel before the Pope at his Coronation (consecration) and are embraced in return.

Vatican II changed the understanding of the relationship of the Pope to his fellow bishops.

Therefore such acts of humiliation are no longer proper (if they have ever been).


defreitas

We have just been informed that "Today the Bishops kneel before the Pope at his Coronation (consecration) and are embraced in return". Do tell! Since there hasn't been a papal coronation in more than 40 years, and since even I cannot remember the last time that a candidate was elected to the Papacy who was not yet a bishop and therefore needed consecration, just what part of the astral plane does this occur on today? The appearance of Pope Pius XIII at his undisclosed location in Montana?
Incognitus

Dear Incognitus:

According to His Holiness John Paul II, Pope and Bishop or Rome, the ceremony for the elevation of a new bishop of Rome is called a "Coronation and not an installation".

These words were spoken by His Holiness when he promulgated the newly revised service for the investiture of a new Bishop of Rome.

Unless the new Pope decides to do away with the approved service there will be a Coronation in Rome (after all these many years).

Do Your Homework.


defreitas

Your humble servant has done his homework. Regardless even of the Pope himself, a service which does not involve an actual crowning cannot seriously be styled a "coronation" - if, however, John Paul II has restored the use of the papal crown (the triple tiara) I shall apologize unreservedly to yourself and everyone else.
Sidebar: when the present King of Spain was enthroned, he took the oath in the presence of the Spanish Crown, but was not himself crowned with it - the crown and sceptre were simply placed on a table adjacent to the King. The diplomatic corps and other notables attended a High Mass to mark the King's accession, but there was no crowning, hence no coronation.
Incognitus

Dear Incognitus:

This is what I understand.

The ceremony will include a crowning.

I remember the Pope saying that because "Pope John Paul I had not been crowned he felt that [he] could not be also; but that the service for the investiture of the Pope is Coronation".

As to the use of the Tiara, the Pope does not have to reinstate anything because its use was never formally abrogated.

Pope Paul VI was crowned with a Tiara but never used it again (he gave his own away, but the Vatican still has about a dozen left).

The Popes in fact only used the Tiara a couple of times a year.

On the yearly anniversary of their Coronation and at two other specific occasions (sorry but can't remember when exactly).

The Tiara was never used by the Pope the way an Orthodox (or Greek-Catholic) Bishop uses the Mitra.

The Pope normally just used a Bishop's Miter.

The Crowning of the Pope was in fact only a small part of the whole ceremony.

It was usually done at the end of the service, and, according to tradition, on the balcony of St. Peter's in front of the Crowds below.

Hardly part of a sacred ritual.

As to monarchs today, the only Christian Kings in whole world who are crowned are England and Tonga.


defreitas

Dear Defreitas,

You are more than correct, as per your usual!

The Monarchs of Europe often only swear an oath as part of the service declaring them to be the royal Head of State nowadays, with the exceptions you mention, including our national Sovereign, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, the Queen of Canada.

But I would personally like to see a return to the fuller papal coronation ceremony with the use of the tiara.

All right, all right, I admit to being a monarchist, O.K., Jose?

And I would like to see a king back in Portugal - and in Bulgaria to make Anton very happy!

God bless you!

Alex

Alex...hello my friend! I trust eveything is fine with you. Going all loony here...essay deadline approaching and I am stuffing myself with Lindt liquid chocolate in nervousness....

Well I am a big fan of our Queen but I will admit that I am not so keen on the restoration of the Bulgarian monarchy. I fail to see the need for it and the pro-monarchy group is very small anyway. Still, one thing you cannot fault abotu Simeon is that he is a faithful son of the Church - his eldest son too...

Anton