www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology De Montfort's Mary

Dear Michael,

I do what St. Louis de Montfort advises every day, so maybe I can add an insight. That is true, even though I find his sentiments and language to not be to my taste. That is true because his insights are very accurate in a very Trinitarian and Incarnational sense.

Here's how:

When Jesus was dying on the Cross for us, He gave Mary to mankind to be our mother when He gave her to St. John. Likewise, He gave us to Mary by giving St. John to her to be her son. So, by the gift of Jesus, Mary the Mother of Jesus is now everybody's spiritual mother. So far, so good: this is basic to Christianity.

Now, going to Jesus through Mary is not substituting Mary for Jesus. Instead, it is the wedding at Cana all over again. The servants at the wedding went to Mary about their shortage of wine. She went to Jesus. Then, she came back to the servants and said, "Do whatever He tells you." Those are Mary's last words in the Bible. And the whole passage is filled with symbolic meaning and overtones. But, at the most basic level, the incident is what it says it was. People asked Mary to help in their need; and she in turn asked Jesus; and He, in turn, gave us what we need.

Now, the question that arises often is: Why? Why can't we go directly to Jesus? Well, we can go directly to Jesus. But, Jesus did not come directly to us. He came through us. Specifically, Jesus came to us through Mary. He could have just shown up in a cloud and a clap of thunder, but He came to us as one of us through us. That teaches us something.

The Incarnation through Mary teaches us that love is shared. Love comes to us through us. For, Jesus is God, and God is Love.

In other words, the Incarnation through Mary teaches us the selfless love and giving which God shares within Himself in the Trinity, which He asks us to imitate amongst ourselves. Theosis is selfless love for God: directly, yes, but especially through the neighbor. For, it is through the neighbor that we learn of God and receive God and go to God.

In short, the mission of Mary is to offer Jesus to the world and to offer the world unto Jesus.

So, every morning, I make my thanksgiving to God for the gift of life, and then I dedicate myself to Jesus Christ, and then I also consecrate myself to Jesus' mom, who is also our mom, Mary. I ask God to give her all the graces and indulgences that He wants to give to me: so that not a scrap of grace will be wasted and so that all will get to whoever needs it most. I also ask that all my prayers and offerings throughout the day will go through her hands: so that whatever is good will be made better by her help (like asking my mom to help me wrap a package) and by her intercession (because she clearly sees God), and so whatever is not good will not go through.

In sum:

I am not asking Mary to be a substitute for Christ.

Instead, I am asking Mary, as my *mom*, to help me to be good for Jesus. It's like being a little kid again and asking my mom to help me across the street. But in this case, I am a full-grown man who is hoping to get to heaven. And I am asking the mother of my Savior to help me -- and others too-- to reach eternity with my Savior: Jesus Christ.

Be well and God Bless.

--John

John, Thank you for your sharing...it was personal and very beautiful. I have a question for you: Every morning and every night, I pray this short consecration prayer (I can't even remember where I got it):

My Queen, My Mother! I give myself entirely to you, and to show my devotion to you, I consecrate to you this day, my eyes, my ears, my mouth, my heart, my whole being without reserve, Therefore, good Mother, as I am your own, keep me, guard me, as your property and possession.

Is this basically the consecration of St. Louis in short form?

Thanks in advance.

Your brother in Jesus & Mary,
+Fr. Gregory, who asks for your holy prayers!

Dear Fr. Gregory,

Thank you for your kind words.

To the best of my knowledge, the consecration you listed is the essence of St. Montfort's form of consecration to Jesus through Mary. The full form of his consecration is several pages long (as I recall), and I only made that once. Since then, I use a much shorter form. It is pretty much what I said in the last paragraph of my previous post.

Be well !

--John

Dear Fr. Gregory,

Thank you for your clarifications.

I have no problem with secondary mediators. Indeed, that is the whole basis of the intercession of the saints, is it not?

What I see in St Louis' writings that bothers me so much is that he appears to attribute to Mary this mediatorship as essential rather than of economy; as if she could not be who she is without it. Moreover, it appears that he attributes to her a kind of communication of divine attributes so that she shares powers that properly belong only to the Divinity.

Now, i admit, i am no scholar and coming from a protestant background I may very well be overly biased and reading things in the text that are not really there. But I'll never get beyond where i am at by remaining silent. So, i ask my questions in sincerity hoping for enlightenment.

Yours,

Jason

I did a quick search on Amazon and found some copies of this book. By Fr. George Kosicki, THE SPIRIT AND THE BRIDE SAY COME It is an excellent book as Mary's role is working with the Holy Spirit to bring the Church around.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...102-5245990-2498529?v=glance&s=books

"I have no problem with secondary mediators. Indeed, that is the whole basis of the intercession of the saints, is it not?

If you have not problem with the above Jason---then you have NO problem! The intercession of the Saints and our fellow believers is exactly what we refer to as 'The Communion of the Saints'---the FIRST among these is the Most Holy Mother of God...she who gave Christ to the world...and continues to do so...then physically and now spiritually.

Chapter III of Redemptoris Mater (articles 38 to 50) deals with Maternal Mediation. The Pope recalls by direct quotation the passage in Lumen Gentium which deals with Mary�s mediation. He shows by analyzing the components of the passage the safeguards for the unique mediation of Christ. Then he proceeds to develop his own ideas, again interweaving with them quotations from the Council text. Speaking of the �subordinate role of Mary� he comments:

"As Mary advanced on the pilgrimage of faith, as she collaborated with Christ in his whole mission, her �motherhood itself underwent a singular transformation, becoming ever more imbued with �burning charity� towards all those to who Christ�s mission was directed. Through this �burning charity,� which sought to achieve, in union with Christ, the restoration of �supernatural life to souls,� Mary entered in a way all her own, into the one mediation �between God and men� which is the mediation of the man Christ Jesus. If she was the first to experience within herself the supernatural consequences of this on mediation - in the Annunciation she had been greeted as �full of grace� - then we must say that through this fullness of grace and supernatural life she was especially predisposed to cooperation with Christ, the one Mediator of human salvation. And such cooperation with Christ, is precisely this mediation subordinated to the mediation of Christ.� This, the Pope says, was special and exceptional mediation, due to Mary�s fullness of grace, expressed in the complete willingness of the �handmaid of the Lord.� After reflections on Mary�s presence at the foot of the Cross, on her uninterrupted maternal care for her children, emphasized by the Council, which the Pope quotes, he goes on: �With the redeeming death of her Son, the maternal mediation of the handmaid of the Lord took on a universal dimension, for the work of redemption embraces the whole of humanity. Thus there is manifested in a singular way the efficacy of the one and universal mediation of Christ �between God and men.� Mary�s cooperation shares, in its subordinate character, in the universality of the mediation of the Redeemer, the one Mediator.�

In her honor,
+Fr. Gregory

I'm glad that I read' Redemptoris Mater' before 'True Devotion' otherwise, despite that fact that I had been warned about the very 'flowery' language , I might have been put off it.

I really had no problems languagewise - it was after all a translation - and since then time has changed our use of language and vocablulary.

I was told to look beyond the language - and at the ideas that it put forward. I was also, when reading True Devotion, told to remember the distinction between 'slave' and 'servant' - after all they are two very different ideas.

Anhelyna

I think you are right about the language, and it is my major problem with "True Devotion..." I have a pretty good idea of what De Montfort meant, so I can get around the language. The problem is when a Protestant picks up that book and concludes, since he doesn't know what De Montfort meant, that we Catholics really do worship Mary. As I have previously mentioned, that devotion does not appeal to me, but in the wrong hands it can be easily misinterpreted.

Christ want's us to have all that is his. And that includes his Blessed Mother. As Father John Corapi said "what man ever became angry because of compliments bestowed upon his mother".

I appreciate all the comments. However, thus far, no one has addressed my questions.

Jason

Dear Jason,

I will give you a few quotes from Saint Gregory Palamas the great Orthodox theologian. He explains the devotion to the Virgin Mary (Theotokos) a little better:

1- "standing between God and the whole human race, she made God a son of man, and men sons of God. She alone showed herself to be supranaturally the mother of God by nature and through her ineffable childbirth became queen of every earthly and heavenly creature".

2 "...the common reconciliation of the whole race of men"...

3- "For she performed a miracle of miracles on earth and a public benefit greater than any in history..."

4- "Mother of God, you joined your 'nous'(spirit) with God; you joined God with flesh; you made God a son of man and man a son of God; you made the world a friend of the maker of the world..."

5- "...she made the whole earth heaven, not calling forth clouds, which many times have obeyed many people, but Him who lifts clouds from the ends of the earth; and she did not call forth temporary relief with rain, but brought us the very treasure of all blessings, the eternal source which is opened up in the paternal bosom by eternal generation, the Word who is estabished upon the vaults of heaven. He brought us living water from there and offered sustenance which makes all who receive it immortal and sons of God...".

6- "that life giving and God receiving body, the true medicine of our race, the boast of all creation"

7- "Highly Favoured for being for ever adorned with the gifts of the Holy Spirit"

8- "...the fullness of divinity bodily by reason of her extreme purity, and of divine kinship with all people before and after her time".

9- "...since she had a higher share of worth and superior power and ordination from the heavens, she became the highest queen of the high and most blessed of the blessed..."

10- "For you are also a place of all the graces, and a fullness of every sort of goodness, and a spiritual catalogue of every virtue and kindness, as the only one of all who was found worthy of all the gifts of the Spirit, aor rather as the only one who, surprisingly, accepted into your womb the one who contains the treasuries of all these things, and you became his surprising dwelling place..."

11- "...in order that as in charge of the office where holiness is given, she gives holiness to all without exception, without leaving anyone without a share, even of the hidden things of the universe, that is to say of those inaccessible things"

12- "...alone is the boundary between created and uncreated nature'. no one can come to God without her and through the mediation which has come from her, and none of the gifts from God could have been given to angels and men except through her".

13- So also it is unfeasible to gaze towards God and proceed from him towards anything unless it is through this Godbearing and truly god-enlightened lamp, the ever-Virgin"

14- "...and so also in the coming unending age every advance in divine illumination and every revelation of the most divine mysteries and every idea of spiritual gifts is impossible to contain without her. She, having first received the fullness of that which fills the universe, made it containable to all, according to the ability and measure of his purity".

15- "...because you became a keeper and place of graces, not in order to possess them in yourself, but to fill the universe with grace. For the treasurer of the inexhaustible treasures is the manager of the distribution.

16- "...she is the glory of those on earth, the delight of those in heaven, the adornment of all creation; she is also the principle and source and root of the ineffable good things, she is the summit and completion of every saint".

Zenovia

Dear Jason,

Remember, God took His flesh from Mary's created nature, and was also in her womb. Without her willingness, and the purity of her soul to contain God, the 'Word' of God could not have come. She has to be the 'eternal' mediator, because she became the boundary between heaven and earth.

Saint Gregory explains it nicely.

Zenovia

If one wants to understand where St. Louis de Montfort was comng from, one has to bear in mind that these were written in a pious loving manner of a child to his Mother. It is a sort of labor of love to the Blessed Virgin. A treatise written in love.

Dear Friends (and those who don't like St Louis de Montfort . . .)

First of all, let's remember that Pope John Paul II personally considers Montfort worthy of the title, "Doctor of the Church" and has taken the steps to initiate a declaration in this regard.

His Holiness is a great devotee of De Montfort and owes his own great Marian devotion to the writings of this Saint.

I can understand why some feel the way they do about Montfort and his devotional language, especially today when so much of yesterday's great Marian devotion has been stripped from the Roman Catholic Church in particular.

I remember the two priests in Chicago, way back when, who mounted a pulpit with a large rosary and then used it for a 'tug of war' to pull it apart saying, at the same time, "this is the end of an era!"

In my Catholic high school, there was a similar anti-Marian attitude with an emphasis on becoming culturally as similar to the Protestants as possible etc.

I don't pretend to understand the issues that RC's have with Montfort and Marian devotion of this or that variety. I approach Montfort from my own understanding of the Byzantine Christian perspective on the Most Holy Mother of God and the veneration of the saints. I do not judge anyone who feels they cannot relate to Montfort and the reason that I, as an Eastern Christian, do.

First of all, Montfort is a Latin Catholic saint, so there is much in his language that does not relate to the way the East expresses itself about Mary.

I don't see that as a problem or even an issue. As a member of the Ecumenical Society of the Blessed Virgin Mary, I was used to hearing what Baptists, Presbyterians and many others, not known for their relation to Mary, said about the Mother of the Word Incarnate, each in their distinctive different ways, many of which were not my way, but they each had something to contribute to the "catholic" understanding of Mary.

In addition, I think it is important to not ONLY read Montfort's writings, but also the commentary ON his writings such as the book "Jesus Living in Mary" which is online at the EWTN library.

Those articles help put different things written by Montfort into a better context and perspective.

He was writing in a certain age of the Church that had particular issues to grapple with - that really don't exist today.

The same can be said of many other saints and spiritual writers.

Also, to judge an author over one or two books, without taking into consideration his other writings and his life experience - that's not a good thing. The book I mention above is written by trained theologians writing from the perspective of Vatican II and it puts Montfort in perspective as well.

I think that if we had all read some of that book, we wouldn't be talking about this subject here, right now - perhaps I'm wrong.

My purpose in writing here is not to counter what has been said about Montfort here since the issues that you've raised are important. I would do them an injustice by trying to respond to them in my own limited way here.

And I also once felt as you do about Montfort, to be totally open about this.

Today, I feel that Montfort has brought home to me not only the Truth of the Incarnation of our Lord, God and Saviour, Jesus Christ, but that he has taught me so much about my Byzantine tradition of veneration for the Most Holy Mother of God, the Woman clothed with the Sun, holding the Child Jesus in her arms, praying with upraised arms to Him Who sits at the Right Hand of the Father, and who is glorified as the Temple of the Holy Spirit through so many miraculous icons and images and, yes, visions.

I've spent a great deal of time losing myself in the glory that is the Byzantine liturgical tradition where, as Fr. Taft writes, there is a perfect balance of devotion to the Trinity, Christ, the Virgin Mary, the Saints etc.

I see NOTHING in Montfort's writings that is not reflected in the Byzantine tradition, including the notion of being the "slaves" or servants of the Mother of God.

I'm completely convinced of this and I say this as someone who once put aside his rosary and other accoutrements of what friends believed were an "over the top" Marian spirituality.

I"m over that now. Balance is called for, yes. Montfort has that balance and he knew what he was writing about.

He revived devotion to Mary and her Child Jesus in Holy Communion and the Cross, the Sacred Humanity of our Lord, at a time when Jansenism ravaged Catholic France. His influence was keenly felt even afterwards during the French Revolution and its anti-Catholic iconoclasm, in the Vendean revolt among other things.

His central teaching that Mary brings us to Jesus so directly, so intimately, so definitively - that is something that should be obvious to us Christians who profess an Incarnational theology and an Incarnate God. Devotion to her ends with Jesus - she does not compete with Her Son as Montfort also writes in his "True Devotion" if we remember.

Let's remember the words of the Gospel of St Luke where Mary is praised FIRST and THEN her Son - blessed are you among women and blessed is the Fruit of your womb."

She is like the Ladder of Jacob on which God climbed down to us and on which we climb up to Him.

Christ is our One Mediator - but He didn't prevent us, whom He saved, from being mediators with Him also.

Christ is the One Priest, but we also share in His Priesthood in various ways.

Mary and the Saints, the church hierarchy, the laity, etc. - these communicate the Word of God and the Grace of Salvation to the world. That doesn't mean they take the place of Christ - just as the Humanity of Christ, deified and transfigured, saves and deifies us, bringing us to Divine intimacy, so too the saints and the Church are used by Christ to mediate Himself to us.

We who are saved and deified are to become like mirrors, reflecting the Light of Christ to others and the world. We are to become "little Christs."

To look at us, others should see Christ. Others should want to go to Christ through us and because of our witness, by the Grace of the Holy Spirit.

That is what Mary does in a pre-eminent way as the Mother of the Body of Christ that is the Church - an office Christ Himself appointed her to from His Cross.

Alex

From: On Saint Ephrem the Syrian - Principi Apostolorum Petro

Encyclical of Pope Benedict XV, promulgated on October 5, 1920

19. Regarding his devotion to the Virgin Mother of God, who can say enough? "You, O Lord and your Mother" he says in a Nisibean (St. Ephrem the Syrian) poem, "are the only ones who are in all respects perfect beauty; in you, my Lord, there is no stain, nor in your Mother is there any dishonor."[39] "The lyre of the Holy Spirit" never sounded sweeter than when he was asked to sing the praises of Mary or to celebrate her perfect virginity, her divine maternity, or her full patronage of mercy toward man.

With love for her,
+Fr. Gregory