www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology "Concelebration?" and The Mystery of Holy Crowning

Yet another curious question, any info would be much appreciated.


First, is it considered concelebrating if a priest of the Ruthenian Church and a priest of the Melkte Church have Litrugy together? I know they are both Byzantine. Does this constitute a specific name? Is it licit for any Byzantine priest to have Liturgy in another sui iuris church under the Byzantine Rite? Is is necessary or merely recommended that a priest in this position be famliar with particualr customs?


Second, I know that the Mystery of Holy Crowning taks place outside of the Divine Liturgy. Is is licit for have several priests (even from different sui iuris churches) present and "invovled"/"giving" (i'm ot sure what word to use here) the Mystery together?

Thanks

Anytime there are two or more priests behind the iconscreen sharing the prayers it is concelebrating.

Yes it is licit for any priest of the Byzantine liturgical tradition to celebrate in any of the sui iuris Byzantine Churches. In fact it is licit for any priest of any sui iuris Church to concelebrate in another. Only being the sole celebrant requires bi-ritual faculties.

Crowning can and often does take place within the Liturgy. I served at a concelebrated Crowning myself. Only the main celebrant Crowns the couple.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Point of information!

Any priest of any rite, may celebrate any rite of any tradition pro devotione, secluso scandalo.

Ed,

I think that permission was taken away after Vatican II.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Deacon Lance,

Thank you again for all the info. you have provided!

For the Mystery of Holy Crowning that doe not take place during the Liturgy, what is the situation for different priests of different sui iuris Churches? What would they do?

What role does the deacon play in the Mystery of Holy Crowning?

Thanks again

LYR,

The concelebrating priests would take whatever prayers the main celebrant concedes to him.

The deacon would take the Litanies and Gospel as at Divine Liturgy.

Fr. Deacon Lance

Deacon Lance,

Thanks!

Edward, If I have understood the Latin you used without translation (slap!with white gloves on both cheeks). Priests can only use their own Rite. Just because they are Catholic for instance does not mean they may celebrate using other Rites. Faculties to use that rite should be obtained first. Now and again I have known Latin clergy on the odd occasion to concelebrate. On such occasions they should do so wearing the vestments of the Rite they belong to.

ICXC
NIKA

Oops. Sorry! I'd forgotten to translate, I'll give my understanding again, in plain English:

Any priest, of any rite, may celebrate any other rite with all the ceremonies and vestments of that rite, for the sake of devotion, as long as no scandal is given.

I take this to mean that, for example, a Byzantine priest may offer the Coptic Liturgy on St Mark's day for the sake of devotion and if no scandal is given; same for a Roman priest offering the Byzantine Liturgy for St John Maximovich - as long as it's not a regular thing, and that formal ritual faculties must be obtained if cross-riting (I think i coined a word there!) is to be done on a regular basis.

I wasn't aware of this privilege being dropped after V2, as Fr Dn Lance informs me - is there a reference to this anywhere?

One point on the Crowning without Liturgy. If a deacon is serving he does not read the gospel as in the Divine Liturgy. This function is reserved to the priest, as in Baptism, Matins, Moleben, etc. This is based upon the principle that the highest function in any service is reserved the higher order. I know that there are numerous instances where this rule is not followed, but this is the prescribed rubric.

I think you will find that the Church put a stop to mix and match litugy/masses a very long time ago. Faculites to use another liturgy have been required for a very long time. I would suggest some centuries even. This is ony granted for very sound reasons, such a as serving a particular community of another Rite out side the various Latin usages. Casual usage of other Rites has never been on. What could happen though is that within the Latin Rite there were many usages and it may have been permitted if priests were in the right place to use other usages like the Ambrosian Rite of Milan, if in the diocese that used it.

Where some priests have faculties to use 2 rites this is termed Bi-Ritual. As all liturgy is 'for the people' and the long standing abuse of 'private masses' has largely ceased the need for sound reasons of service to the people are what determines the granting of the faculties to use another Rite other than ones own. There are a number of bi-ritual clergy around. Most however are Latin and something else depending on their particular apostolate.

ICXC
NIKA

Pace, Pavel, I was not referring to mix and match liturgies!

This is only if the celebration is intended to be a regular thing - I don't believe it applies if the celebration is meant as a once-only event.

I'm almost certain I read that this privilege of being able to celebrate any rite for the sake of devotion, avoiding scandal, was extended to all priests in sometime in the 19th or even earlyi 20th Century. I can't for the life of me remember where I saw this, but I distinctly remember being quite startled by it. Possibly from Leo XIII? Perhaps our dear Incognitus can help us find the answer in his brown paper bag?

Dear Edward,
Well, since you ask, I suggest the Latin phrase per modum actus.

Incognitus

Edward the Catholic Church has a long history of regarding it's Latin wing as sort of senior service. I could understand permission being granted for the use of other Latin liturgical traditions from clergy within the Latin rite. However they would never permit anyone to just celebrate the Liturgy of other churches in communion with the pope. Faculties would have to be sought first and I dont think devotions would have ever cut it with the authorities. A general view would be that the Latin liturgy was a sort of pinnacle of liturgy, so why would anyone want to come off the maountain. I can think of the Abbot's name who restored OSB monastercism in France after it had almost died out after all the troubles from the revolution etc was in Rome and saw a byzantine rite Liturgy while there where the priest may have added a few latin vestments. The Ven Abbot noted in his letters that the priest was on the right track adding Latin vestments, as the Latin rite was perfection itself and given time that priest would use it. so using other liturgies outside the Latin Rite was not casually granted with that attitude around. You will note a similar tone in those books written in the 20th cent. where one volume is on the Orthodox and the other is on the Eastern Catholic. In these books you can see that the Orthodox churches were often described in less than flattering terms, while the eastern Catholics were usually described as being on the right road because the latins have shown them the way and raised them up to almost 'white standards' of the time. Unfortunatley there is a degree of racism that slips through but it was common for the time. I work in Welfare here in Australia and now and again old files for our Aboriginal people pass my desk and in them were old forms that required boxes to be be ticked and these asked the question was the house clean to "white standards". I know from expereince that ethnicity has NOTHING to do with how clean a house was/is. However, there was a time that all things western (Latin) was the top of the pile and the Church was not exempt from such views.

ICXC
NIKA

I wonder who's granting the faculties for Eastern Catholic priests to set up western devotions in eastern Churches. Even in newly built eastern Churches, the Stations of the Cross and other western practices can be found; can a parishoner ask if his/her priest has sought permission for these?