www.byzcath.org Forums Faith & Christian Life Faith & Theology Psssst! Have You Heard About The...Latinizations?

When you tell people that you are a Byzantine Catholic and after the explanation of what a Byzantine Catholic is, they want to know if you pray the Rosary, have statues, etc. I won't give the name of the parish but it was here in Virginia. When the Priest of this Byzantine Catholic parish was beginning the Akathist to The Holy Virgin, some members of the parish became very irate. Why? They wanted to pray the Rosary! He was following what he, the Priest, read in "Orientale Lumen" and he wanted to put that into practice. A group from the praish started praying the Rosary in a private home. An unkind letter was written to this Priest and even though, I was not there at the time, I feel real bad about this. He stuck to his plans and did not back down. Some from this group began to criticize the Deacon because he was married saying that they, married Deacons, are not allowed in the Roman Catholic Rite. Some may have gone on to attend Roman Catholic parishes. Has anyone else noticed "latinizations" attempting to move in or is this just an isolated event? I find such a rich devotional and liturgical spirituality in the Byzantine Catholic Faith. I want to know all that I can about them. Why this move to throw out the baby with the bathwater in some Byzantine Catholic parishes? Why this move to write off the devotional practices that we are blessed with and grab hold of something that is not ours?

I know that on several occasions the Holy Father himself has publicly prayed the Akathist Hymn in St. Peter's. He has also granted a plenary indulgence to this prayer, especially when it is prayed together as a family. It is so sad and disturbing that those who know the least about the Church can cause such havoc and hurtful feelings. Yes! The Latin Church does have married deacons. In fact, at a recent celebration for deacons AND their wives at St. Peter's in Rome, the Holy Father mentioned that over 70% of the deacons in the Roman Rite were married. As a footnote: The Holy Father also graciously acceded to the request of the deacons that the Sacred Relics of the first deacon/martyr, Saint Lawrence, be present for the celebration in Rome over which the Pope personally presided.

Silouan,
Glory to Jesus Christ!

In your last post you stated that St Lawrence was the first deacon-martyr. Actually, St Stephen was the first Deacon-Martyr. St Lawrence was the holy deacon of the Church at Rome. He too was martyred, but in a later century.

Pado.

Anne,

It's actually the other way around, and it's pretty complicated.

After the Eastern Catholic churches reentered communion with Rome, most underwent a period of 'latinization' -- during which latin devotional, liturgical, theological and (in some cases) disciplinary practices were adopted. The process was gradual and, for the most part, with the full consent of the hierarchs and most of the laity. It was seen as (1) a means of distinguishing the Eastern Catholics from the Eastern Orthodox (and this became increasingly important in places where there has been 'bad blood' here, like Eastern Europe), (2) a means of embracing the 'progressive' approach of the western church (the west was seen as more advanced at the time) and (3) a means of integrating into the larger Catholic Church (which we know is mostly Latin). It was, for the most part, not engineered by Rome but instead by the Eastern Catholics themselves -- although until recently Rome didn't complain about it either.

At Vatican II, the Church affirmed that the Eastern Catholic churches should embrace their full patrimony once again and that accretions that are 'foreign' to their heritage should be gradually removed and replaced with those elements that are proper to their heritage. This was subsequently reaffirmed by Rome -- particularly in recent documents such as Orientale Lumen and the Liturgical Instruction issued by Rome a few years ago. The directive has been for the Eastern Catholic Churches to recover their full heritage, including devotional life -- with the understanding that this has to be done in a pastorally-sensitive way so that those Eastern Catholics who grew up in latinized churches, and are attached to that spirituality, are not suddenly unmoored spiritually.

Now, of course, we know that the Latin Church has made its own changes since Vatican II, and that not all Latin Catholics (particularly the more traditional Latin Catholics) are happy with some or all of the changes there. Some of these end up in Eastern Catholic parishes. Some of these become Easternized over time, and embrace the tradition. Some of them do not become Easternized and don't wish to, but instead want a place where they can practice a more traditional spirituality, with traditional RC elements like the rosary and stations, statues, etc. Predictably, many in the latter category are not enthusiastic about the Eastern Catholic churches becoming more fully "Eastern" at the expense of the latinized elements -- because they were precisely looking for a place where these elements of RC spirituality were fostered. In short, they like the sung liturgy and incense, but don't want much of the rest of the Eastern tradition. We need to treat these people with compassion as well, for they are like 'spiritually homeless' -- the church they came from abandoned its traditional spirituality, leaving these people searching for a place where they can practice a spirituality that is both traditional and latin. Nevertheless, they are a complicating factor -- because they tend to be very vocal and agitated (something they carry with them from the liturgical warfare presently taking place in the Roman Church). Sometimes, they join together with some of the disgruntled latinized ECs who are unenthusiastic about the de-latinization effort -- and this can lead to serious issues for a parish from the pastoral point of view.

So, what we are seeing is the gradual de-latinization of the Eastern Catholic churches -- gradual due to legitimate pastoral concerns regarding those Eastern Catholics who grew up in the Eastern Catholic churches. The result, in effect, is that at this time different parishes are actually quite different in practice. Our parish, for example, is thoroughly Eastern -- which is why, I think, we attract very few repeat attenders from the ranks of traditional RCs. Other parishes in our diocese, and other EC jurisdictions, are less Eastern, and tend to attract more trad RCs. It is complicated because of the eclectic mixture of people you find in a typical EC parish.

The most important thing for a parish is that it function as a cohesive unit, as a family. Ideally, everyone ought to be on the same page spiritually, liturgically, etc. But, in any case, factionalization of any type along these lined should be avoided, to th extent possible. This kind of concern should influence the pace of delatinization -- whether slower or faster -- based on the particular needs of a given parish.

Brendan

In the effort to return to our own spirituality and traditions, there is another complication that Brendan didn't mention in his excellent post:

Apparitions.

Many Eastern Catholics that I know insist upon Western devotions because they were asked for in apparitions. Mary appeared in Fatima asking for the Rosary to be prayed, Jesus appeared in Poland asking for "First Friday" devotions along with the Divine Mercy chaplet and image. Because these devotion were requested by Our Lord and Lady, many Eastern Catholics feel obliged to make them a part of parish life.

Brendand,

How should we respond to this objection?

Anthony

Dragani,

These apparitions are simply not a part of the Byzantine tradition. We have our own apparitions (e.g., the Pokrova), miraculous icons, etc.

The key with apparitions is this � are they consistent with Church teaching or not? No legitimate apparition contradicts Church teaching. The Church presently teaches that each tradition should utilize those practices, devotions, liturgical and spiritual heritages, that are proper to it. Therefore, to the extent that these devotions are being understood to imply a universality to Roman devotional practice, they are simply being misunderstood because, again, legitimate apparitions or miraculous events do not contradict Church teaching, which is clear enough in this case.

Again, pastoral sensitivity is the key here. If a substantial number of people in a given parish want rosaries, adoration, stations, etc., it is counterproductive to eliminate them in one fell swoop � that would only be alienating. At the same time, however, changes should be gradually introduced in a pastorally-sensitive fashion � and, again, if people have misunderstandings about the universality of certain devotional practices that are proper to one or another tradition, they should be gently instructed as to why this is not the case, and as to what the present teaching of the Church is in these areas.

Brendan

Glory to Jesus Christ ! Good question, Anthony. I think that it depends on the apparition. Is the apparition approved by competent authority ? The devotions you mentioned are. Are these appartions in line with Orthodox Spirituality ? Regarding Fatima, there is a Byzantine Catholic tradition of devotion to the Theotokos of Fatima (churches, ikons, use of the prayer rope, saints whose causes are pending, etc.) You may want to consult the Blue Army of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. I am unaware of such a tradition in the case of the Divine Mercy apparition. One could start such practices if the apparition is not too Roman in spirit. I don't know enough to tell. I agree with Brendan about the pastoral sensitivity in replacing cherished Latinized practices with authentic Orthodox ones.

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-06-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Doulos of Fatima (edited 03-06-2000).]

>>You may want to consult the Blue Army of the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh.<<

There is no such organization within the Byzantine Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. While I do not doubt that there might be individual Byzantines who seek to someday organize such a group, there is no officially sanctioned Blue Army group in any of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Churches. They are not listed in the directories and I just checked again with two priests who serve in Pittsburgh. Neither is aware of such an organization.

Also, there is not an authentic Byzantine tradition of devotion to Our Lady of Fatima (the only person I've ever heard refer to this devotion as "Theotokos of Fatima" is Doulous). Where this devotion existed or exists among Byzatines, it is purely an imitation of the equivalent Latin tradition. It doesn't make it wrong, just not authentically Byzantine. Somehow, I cannot imaging the Mother of God appearing and telling us to replace the Akathist with the Rosary, even if the Rosary is a valid devotion.

To All,

I thought I would share this with all of you, perhaps it was inserted into your bulletins this week.

Inserted into this week's bulletin was a letter from the Metropolitan stating the regulations for the Great Fast. Regarding litugrgical services:
The Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts takes precedence over all other Lenten Devotions.
The Divine Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts ONLY is to be celebrated on Wednesday and/or Friday evenings of Great Lent and also on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday of Holy Week.
Other servicesare encouraged during the season of the Great Fast, but only those in keeping with the tradition of the Byzantine Church, namely, Lenten Vespers, Lenten hours, Akathist to the Passion, Lenten Devotions. Services borrowed from other traditions are to be discouraged.

If Oriental Lumen and the Liturgical Instruction are not clear enough, here is a direct order from the Metropolitan. Those who wish to attend Stations and/or Adoration should head to the nearest Latin parish. They clearly no longer have a place in our Byzantine Churches. If parishes do not comply they are commiting an act of disobedience.

I do not mean to sound harsh, but those who wish to continue with latinizations will do so and appeal to the pastoral sensitivity clause to justify it. It has to stop at some point, and I think the Metropolitan's directive is a good start.

A line has to be drawn between the public liturgical life of the Church and the private devotional practices of the faithful. Latinizations can no longer be tolerated in the official liturgical life of the Byzantine Catholic Church. Private devotional practices are another matter. While these to need to be brought into line with the liturgical practices of the Church, in the end this must be an initiative of the people. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. Those who want to continue with Latin practices can do them on their own or at a Roman parish, at least that is how I see it.

In Christ,
Lance, deacon-candidate

Anthony,

I would remind those who want to justify latinizations by apparitions that these are private revelations that noone is obliged to believe in or obey. On the otherhand, reclaiming our true liturgical heritage is something that has been ordered by Vatican II, the Holy Father, and our Hierarchs, who we are obliged to listen to and obey.

In Christ,
Lance

>There is no such organization within the Byzantine Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. While I do not doubt that there might be individual Byzantines who seek to someday organize such a group, there is no officially sanctioned Blue Army group in any of the Byzantine-Ruthenian Churches. They are not listed in the directories and I just checked again with two priests who serve in Pittsburgh. Neither is aware of such an organization.<

Moose,
You are mistaken. There does exist a Blue Army chapter within the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. It is listed in the Blue Army directory of Blue Army "cells" located throughout the United States. Also, a friend of mine did indeed speak with the priest who is in charge of this Byzantine Blue Army group. It does exist, maybe your two priest-friends are not aware of it.

>Also, there is not an authentic Byzantine tradition of devotion to Our Lady of Fatima (the only person I've ever heard refer to this devotion as "Theotokos of Fatima" is Doulous).<

Devotion to Our Lady of Fatima among Byzantine Catholics was most evidently seen among the Russian Byzantine Catholic Churches.
In Fatima, there is the Russian Byzantine Chapel of the Dormition of the Theotokos. If you've seen pictures of the chapel, it is very beautiful and very "Russian" in style - no latinization whatsoever.
The late Russian Catholic Bishop was present for the dedication of this chapel as well as priests from the Russicum.
In San Fransisco, there is Our Lady of Fatima
Russian Catholic Church. This parish played a role in acquiring the Icon of Our Lady of Kazan- regarded by Catholics and Orthodox as being the original icon. This icon was enshrined in the Russian Catholic Chapel in Fatima, but it is now in the Vatican.

During the pastorship of Fr. Karl Patzelt,S.J.-widely known as a very holy priest- this parish practiced the Fatima devotions. While the Fatima devotions are no longer practiced at this parish, it still celebrates October 13th(last apparition of the Theotokos at Fatima) as its patronal feast.

God bless you all during this Great Fast.



[This message has been edited by Byzantino (edited 03-07-2000).]

Since this thread is on latinizations, I would like to ask a question and would appreciate your opinions on the following:

Is the veneration of Roman-rite Catholic
saints by Eastern Catholics also considered a "latinization"? Is so, why?

>> There does exist a Blue Army chapter within the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh. It is listed in the Blue Army directory of Blue Army "cells" located throughout the United States.<<

Such a group may exist and may include a priest from the Archeparchy of Pittsburgh, but it is not an officially recognized archieparchial organization. Again, several of the priests I know who serve in Pittsburgh are unaware of its existence. Do you happen to know of the name of the priest who is supposed to be the head of this chapter?


>> Devotion to Our Lady of Fatima among Byzantine Catholics was most evidently seen among the Russian Byzantine Catholic Churches. In Fatima, there is the Russian Byzantine Chapel of the Dormition of the Theotokos. If you've seen pictures of the chapel, it is very beautiful and very "Russian" in style - no latinization whatsoever.<<

Devotion to Our Lady of Fatima by Byzantines of any ethnic jurisdiction is not valid proof that this devotion is authentically Byzantine. If one accepted this reasoning as valid then one must accept devotions such as the Stations of the Cross, Eucharistic Devotion, the Rosary, adoration of the Infant of Prague Statue, Divine Mercies, Divine Liturgy instead of Vespers, Matins and Divine Liturgy, etc., as equally valid and authentic for Byzantines because they existed to a large degree within our parishes. The criteria of whether a particular practice is authentically Byzantine must be that the practice has strong roots within and is faithful to the Byzantine Tradition, not whether the practice is popular.

Byzantines who embraced Fatima did so for two reasons: 1) they privately accepted these apparitions as true and 2) it was the 'Catholic thing to do'. Individuals have the right to embrace the personal devotions they choose. A Particular Church, however, must be faithful to its Tradition and not imitate for the sake of popularity or acceptance.


>>Is the veneration of Roman-rite Catholic saints by Eastern Catholics also considered a "latinization"? Is so, why?<<

No, it is not a latinization. The Saints - be they canonized by Roman Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, or the Orthodox - are members with us in the Communion of Saints. They are that "great cloud of witnesses" to which the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews refers (12:1). The fostering of devotion by Byzantines to a Western Saint or by Latins to an Eastern Saint is perfectly appropriate, but it should be done in the context of the fact that the devotion is to the saint, not because the saint is Eastern or Western. In the same way, the fostering of devotion to Our Lady of Fatima is acceptable so long as it is fostering devotion to the message and not to Western customs and practices. One could well ask, if Mary had appeared in Russia, Ukraine or Carpathia instead of Fatima, would she have asked people to pray the rosary or the akathist? If the Rosary, then does this mean she considers our Byzantine way of life unacceptable? Why or why not? And why do some consider personal devotion to Fatima through authentic Byzantine prayer so unacceptable? Is not the Roman Rosary the fair equivalent of the Byzantine Akathist?

"The Saints - be they canonized by Roman Catholics, Byzantine Catholics, or the Orthodox - are members with us in the Communion of Saints."

Of course, the saints, are members with us in the Communion of Saints regardless of any official act of any Church body. For private devotion, it is the private conscience which "canonizes" saints. For public bodies, it is the appropriate juridical authority. Therefore persons to be canonized by the Orthodox are not by that act approved for communal veneration by Catholics.

Under the current practice in the Catholic Church, the terms "saint" is generally reserved to those who veneration has been approved for the entire Universal Church while the title "Blessed" is used for those for whom a Particular Church venerates within its own community, among others.

Dear Friends:

Sunday was a beautiful time for me. I was beginning my first Orthodox Lent as a Byzantine Catholic. I was spending some time with a fellow member when I heard her say "One way that the church will grow is if Father would pray the Rosary." I was in shock! I mean TOTAL SHOCK! I could not believe that I heard those words but I did. I began to explain to her "Orientale Lumen". Then I found out that she was RC and there are a few like that. My question is: Why not go to a RC parish? Where is the respect for the liturgical/devotional practices of that particular Rite? I am not saying that this person was being disrespectful but.....

I was shaken to the core because I love the Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite and if I wanted RC, I could have stayed where I was. I must admit that I am...sad. I was told that these things happen but I guess that I wasn't expecting it to happen so quickly in my sphere. I love you all and thank you for the wonderful answers.

Hold on to what God has blessed you to have. Live it, practice it and never take it for granted. Teach it to your children. Fight the good fight!

Ann