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We all know that Eastern Catholics are in union with Rome, yet retain their unique theology and expression. What about Western Orthodoxy? Do the Western Orthodox have Western Theological expression while being in union with the rest of Orthodoxy? Are they Western in Liturgics only while still retaining Eastern theological perspective?

I'm looking to you, Alex, to give me some info

Columcille

Dear Columcille,

I came running when I heard you calling in the background!

This is a fascinating issue that you've raised. (I find you fascinating all around, Big Guy!)

The Western Rite Vicariate of the Antiochian Orthodox Church does indeed promote the liturgical, sacramental and theological traditions of Orthodoxy in the West in the first millennium.

They start from the position that the Orthodox Fathers, East and West, held the same faith as they were inspired by the same Holy Spirit.

The differences in theological emphases are duly noted and studied.

I would recommend the book by Bl. Seraphim Rose on the saints of Orthodox Gaul as an excellent, general overview of these differences.

For example, he found that the Western Orthodox Churches did, in fact, use the "Filioque" but in a sense that is related to the Economic Trinity, rather than the Inner Life of the Trinity i.e. procession etc.

John Meyendorff too in his BYZANTINE THEOLOGY and historical work makes mention of the Western view on salvation i.e. that Christ died to atone for the offense to the Father caused by Original Sin and sinful humanity by becoming Man and that only God could make sufficient atonement against an offense made against God AND that only God-become-man could apply His salvation to all of humanity.

It is entirely Western and entirely acceptable as an Orthodox perspective.

Others study Augustine and the whole issue of what Original Sin does to our human nature etc.

Alex

Perhaps, if Western Orthodoxy grows, it will play a prominent role in the reunion of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, as the Eastern Catholic Churches obviously will.

Have any other Orthodox Churches besides the Antiochean Orthodox Church endorsed forms of Western Orthodoxy?

ChristTeen287

Those in the Western Rite Orthodox Church are less likely to have a reunion with Rome. There view of Rome is one of an oppressor who was key in converting (by force) Orthodox English Isles. For those interested here is a link to a great Western Orthodox site http://www.odox.net/Orthodoxy.htm

Odo,

If the Antiochean Orthodox Church decided to reunite with Rome, wouldn't the Western rite and its parishes automatically go with the rest of the Antiochean Church (unless they split off and kept their own group)?

ChristTeen287

Dear Friends,

The Western Rite Orthodox, a number of whom I have gotten to know, have varied attitudes toward Rome.

They are fiercely loyal to the pre-schism Roman Church and traditions, for one thing.

There are those among them who, while seeing Rome as separated from Orthodoxy (in more ways than one ), would like to see "Rome come home" and have its former place of honour etc.

Fr. Schneirla who is the spiritual Father and leader of the Western Rite in the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese is a deeply spiritual man who is extremely knowledgeable about Western theology and liturgy.

He is so good, as a matter of fact, that I saw him inspire all sorts of Western Christians to become members of the Western Rite of Orthodoxy.

When he mentioned the Rosary, I felt my own composure going, but then remembered that I belong to the East after all .

And there is nothing of the Anti-Rome sentiment that one SOMETIMES finds among RC and other Western converts to Eastern Orthodoxy.

Alex

Thank you, Alex. And thank you Odo for that link. A couple more questions, if I may.

Is the Western Rite under Antioch considered Canonical by "World Orthodoxy"?

Where are the priests trained who served in the Western Rite?

I understand that there is a Western Rite under ROCOR. Do they share ROCOR's semi-Canonical status?

There is a Western Rite parish about 75 miles from me on Long Island. I think I shall plan a visit.

Columcille

Dear Columcille,

Yes, indeed, the Western Rite of the Antiochian Orthodox Church is as canonical as the Eastern Rite .

The Antiochian Patriarch loves the Western Rite, I am told, and has even personally reviewed their liturgy etc.

Some Western Rite priests have been "poached" over to the Eastern Rite, as I heard, and the Antiochian bishops have put a stop to that nonsense . . .

Western Riters would share in the canonical fortunes of the larger Eastern Orthodox Church of which they are a part.

Priestly converts to Western Rite Orthodoxy are judged scholastically by the Orthodox bishops that is, whether their theological education needs to be augmented etc.

Others would train in the same programme with emphasis on Western liturgical issues at the discretion of the bishop who blessed them to enter the seminary.

You might wish to contact Fr. Schneirla directly on the Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocesan website.

Look up Fr. Stephen Walinski in Omaha, Nebraska and correspond with him.

Tell him his wayward friend, Alex in Toronto, referred you!

Alex

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ChristTeen287:
[QB]Odo,

If the Antiochean Orthodox Church decided to reunite with Rome, wouldn't the Western rite and its parishes automatically go with the rest of the Antiochean Church (unless they split off and kept their own group)?

ChristTeen287[QUOTE]

I don't think that would ever happen, but if it did there is still other Orthodox groups that have Western Rites. (Slavic Orthodox are working on it, and the Greek Old Cal., as well as the Russians) So there are many options for Westerners now-a-days.

"Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King

I don't think that would ever happen, but if it did there is still other Orthodox groups that have Western Rites. (Slavic Orthodox are working on it, and the Greek Old Cal., as well as the Russians) So there are many options for Westerners now-a-days.

"Can't we all just get along?"
Rodney King

Hmmm...is their Western liturgy development "organic" like apparently it's supposed to be?

There haven't always been Western rites in Orthodoxy, but there have always been Eastern rites in Catholicism. Not that that's relevant.

ChristTeen287

This may be a question to Alex in particular.

Wasn't St John Maximovich deeply involved in developed a Western Rite especially for the French Orthodox Church?? I know that Father Seraphim (Rose) was one of his spiritual sons.

Peace,
Brian in Sacramento

Dear Brian,

Yes, St John Maximovitch established the French Orthodox Church and the Orthodox Church of the Netherlands. He also ordained the first Spanish Orthodox Priest.

He returned many Western Saints to the Orthodox Calendar as well.

I understand that he translated the Gallican Divine Liturgy of St Germain and used it frequently in his later years.

Alex

Dear Odo:

The Site you listed is not part of the AOC but belongs to a Western Rite under the Synod of Milan. It is not in full communion with Orthodox Patriarchates, but I'm not saying it is not a true Church. Their history is very interesting, the monastery St Hilarion was (correct me if Im wrong) a former Old Catholic monastery. They come from very different backgrounds and it has been a vagant community. It came in communion with a Florinist Synod of Greece (an ultra-conservative old-calendar), some claimed to be part of the Kievan Patriarch Filaret, and then some became under the Church of Poland.

The curious thing is that in spite of being against false ecumenism they have western rites (including re-creations of rites such as the Sarum Mass).

I think that their anti-romanism in that article is quite artificial because they were in communion with an Old Calendarist Synod, but I doubt they are anti-roman, I'm sure that they hope and pray that someday both Churches will be in full communion again.

About French Galican Rite, this Church has also been vagant, they use a re-created form of the Galican Liturgy. Their first Bishop, after leaving the Roman Church was originally consacrated in the Liberal Catholic Church (?? survey needed.) He tried to reconcile with the Roman Church but faced difficulties because it was hard for him to find prelates who recognized his orders as valid. He converted to Orthodoxy and was received in the Romanian Patriarchate (I'm not sure if St John Maximovitch had to do with this), and he was re-consacrated. Some years later the Romanian Patriarchate cut tides with the French Church and they started an independent life. They were in temporary communion with other Patriarchates if Im not mistaken, but now they're independent. The last news I had is that they were in negociations with the Roman Catholic Church again (with the Bishops of France) and that they'll probably become part of that Church. The Rite used has been apparently accepted by the French Bishops and the Roman Church but the problem is the status they would have (apostolic administration, indult parishes, special rite diocese, ??)

The Orthodox Church in Netherlands and France (those who accepted the Byzantine Rite) are in full communion with World Orthodoxy through the Ecumenical Patriarchate (Russian Orthodox Exarchate in Europe). These Churches are definately linked with the movement supported by St John Maximovitch.

For a picture of St.John of Shanghai and San Francisco ordaining a western-rite priest, go to

http://www.ortodox.tk

The priest being ordained is Fr Salvatore Cajozzo.
He later switched to the Byzantine rite and is precently pastor of The Swedish Orthodox Church, a small jurisdiction which until recently was under the Kiev Patriarchate.

Enjoy!

Christian