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#67475 11/20/03 06:45 AM
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Yes, one finds three bar crosses, but this is largely in the second half of the synodal period when sacred art returned to Russian roots. From the time of Peter the Great to the later Romanov's the Latin cross dominated Russian sacred art. The three bar cross remained in popular arts and crafts, but any examination of the 'official' fine art leads one to the krizh, rather than the krest - an illegal object in some bishoprics.

Fr Mark.

#67476 11/20/03 08:00 AM
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Quote
Originally posted by Fr Mark:
Yes, one finds three bar crosses, ..........but any examination of the 'official' fine art leads one to the krizh, rather than the krest - an illegal object in some bishoprics.

Fr Mark.
Fr Mark ,,
Please would you explain what you mean by krizh and krest and why it was an illegal object in some bishoprics

Anhelyna

#67477 11/20/03 11:41 AM
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Dear Anhelyna,

the krizh is the Latin cross, whereas the krest is the traditional Russian Orthodox three-bar cross. The latter was associated with the Old Believers, so it was rejected by many higher clergy. One needs to remember that the Imperial government established strict codes to westernise iconogrphy, including the use of heterodox painters to execute totally westenised official 'iconographic' schemes. Luckily, the 19th century saw a return to true iconography.

Also, due to the size of the empire, much alluded the government censors!

With love in Christ -
Mark, monk and sinner

#67478 11/20/03 12:20 PM
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eluded

#67479 11/20/03 12:31 PM
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Thankyou!

#67480 11/21/03 04:20 AM
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If the 8-pointed (3-bar) Cross was actually illegal in all or part of the Russian Empire, then of necessity there must be records to document this. Can they be found and published? Incognitus

#67481 11/21/03 06:55 AM
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When I return home, I will find the exact title of the book that includes an article on the diocese of Kholmogory and the efforts of it's first bishop to erradicate perceived symbols of dissent, especially the eight-pointed cross.

This issue of the cross was at the heart of many Old Believer polemical tracts. The attempted imposition of the Latin cross, caused Old Believers to associate it with the anti-Christ, as it could not be accepted - according to their mentality - as the instrument of salvation. Whilst four pointed crosses - usually Greek - were accepted in some decorative schemes, they were not accepted as the cross in icons the crucifixion. This topic is touched upon by the ethnographer David Scheffel in his study 'In the Shadow of Antichrist: the Old Believers of Alberta'.

An examination of the comparative broad sheets/Lubok juxtaposing ritual objects of the Old Rite and New Rite also show the Nikonian treatment of the Latin cross as that endorsed by the state Church.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#67482 11/21/03 10:06 AM
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Dear Father Mark,

Bless!

Thank you for all the interesting information!

It is good to have you back here once in a while!

In Christ our Lord,
Kissing your right hand,
Alice

#67483 11/21/03 12:37 PM
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The All-Merciful Lord bless you, Alice.

Thankyou for your kind words.

Spasi Khristos -
Mark, monk and sinner.

#67484 11/25/03 03:20 AM
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Visitation nuns were a silver reliquary cross of a specific design as part of their religious habit (now-a-days often the only part of their habit they still were). Each years they exchange these crosses between themselves so they do not develope a habit of regarding one particular cross as their personal property. I forget what relics are contained in these crosses, although I was shown those contained in the cross worned by a Visitation nun I knew in Minneapolis. Originally, if my memory serves me right, the pectoral crosses worn by bishops and abbots and abbesses were also reliquary crosses. The Panagis worn by an eastern bishop was originally a eucharistic locket and it use goes back to a time when all monks worn eucharistic lockets when travelling. There are historical references to the Irish monks wearing such eucharistic lockets on their missionary journeys. Arvid

#67485 11/25/03 05:16 PM
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Father Mark: Spasi Khristos! You mention "the ethnographer David Scheffel in his study 'In the Shadow of Antichrist: the Old Believers of Alberta'." Sounds like something well worth reading; is it possible to obtain a copy? Prostite menia Khrista radi.
Incognitus

#67486 11/25/03 05:51 PM
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Dear Incognitus,

There is a famous cartoon from the period of the Old Believer, er, excuse me, "Nikonian Schism" wink (Father Mark, do I get high marks from you for that? wink ) that shows two men each with a different Cross.

Metropolitan Ilarion Ohienko in his book "The Holy Pochayivska Lavra" discusses the history of the Pochaiv print-shop and lists a number of Old Believer books printed there during the Basilian period . . .(!)

In his book on the three-bar Cross ("Natsionalny Khrest Ukrayini"), he discusses the book by the author, Lavrenti Zizany-Tustanovski that developed the theology of the three-bar Cross with slanted foot-rest ("Orthodox Staurology") and whose work was reprinted many times by the Old Believers who agreed with him.

Beginning with Peter the Great, there was quite the official backlash against traditional Orthodox symbols, including the three-bar Cross and the beard. Old Believers needed to pay a special tax for the privilege of wearing a beard and then bore a coin for identification to prove to police authorities that they had indeed paid it!

Interestingly, the Old Believers felt most at home in western Ukraine where the three-Bar Cross was popular, especially in those regions that suffered persecution from their RC neighbours. The three-bar Cross became "our Cross" as opposed to the one-bar Western Cross.

Fr. Irenaeus Nazarko OSBM in his book on Kyivan Metropolitans makes mention of a local Polish Catholic synod where the "line was drawn" so that Polish seminarians and priests were forbidden to adopt certain practices from "uniates" such as beards, long robes and pectoral Crosses of the three bar variety.

This would make Ukrainians/Belarusyans and Old Believers the only promoters of this type of Cross at one time in history.

Alex

#67487 11/25/03 05:55 PM
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Dear Arvid,

You raise many good points!

For me, the most important is the call we each have to share our spiritual goods with one another.

I've often given this or that religious object to someone rather grudgingly.

But then I've seen the spiritual good it has done in that person's life.

A young girl I knew when I was young too received a rosary from me years ago.

A few years back, she was the maid of honour and I the best man at a wedding.

As we sat together at the bride's table, she pulled out something to show me - it was the old rosary.

It was my favourite when I was growing up and I actually missed it.

The young lady told me the rosary had helped her pull through a two-year convalescence following a debilitating disease in hospital . . .

I still keep that rosary in my heart and know that it is where it will do the most good!

Alex

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